Throwing your partner under the bus

[mstaylor]

This gets brought up in discussions all the time. I don't think you should in most cases throw him under but you shouldn't drag him under either. That is where you go to your partner just to get the coach off your back, especially when you know he is doing other things and couldn't possibly help you. I can think of a couple of times I have no problem tossing and umpire under the bus, and I have. 

1. Batter checkswings, the PU says," Yes he did." Coach asks if he could check it and he does. I'm sorry, if you are dumb enough to come to me on a swung strike, then I will respond," That's not appealable." Then back away and watch bail his way out. 

2. A PU is not putting the ball in play and the pitcher finally makes a close throw over. I simply look at the PU and ask if he had put the ball in play. If he says yes, I make a call, if he says no, sorry boys, the ball is still dead. A life lesson for the PU. 

3. BU yelling across the infield asking about a pull or a swipe when he knows damn well I have runners I am watching and am not looking at first. I will tell him I wasn't looking, can't help. If I am in a position to help I will be happy to help but don't ask when you should know I have nothing. 

I know we always say we are a team and should have each others back, which I agree with, but after stressing certain things and them not doing it, I will throw you under that bus in a heartbeat. 

[cyclonehokiece]

We all do stupid stuff on the field from time to time.  Sometimes we just have to be called out.  I see this as reminding partners, although I would love to do it in a huddle, you come out and put me in the spot, I will throw it right back at you.

[Pops]

This gets brought up in discussions all the time. I don't think you should in most cases throw him under but you shouldn't drag him under either. That is where you go to your partner just to get the coach off your back, especially when you know he is doing other things and couldn't possibly help you. I can think of a couple of times I have no problem tossing and umpire under the bus, and I have. 

1. Batter checkswings, the PU says," Yes he did." Coach asks if he could check it and he does. I'm sorry, if you are dumb enough to come to me on a swung strike, then I will respond," That's not appealable." Then back away and watch bail his way out. 

2. A PU is not putting the ball in play and the pitcher finally makes a close throw over. I simply look at the PU and ask if he had put the ball in play. If he says yes, I make a call, if he says no, sorry boys, the ball is still dead. A life lesson for the PU. 

3. BU yelling across the infield asking about a pull or a swipe when he knows damn well I have runners I am watching and am not looking at first. I will tell him I wasn't looking, can't help. If I am in a position to help I will be happy to help but don't ask when you should know I have nothing. 

I know we always say we are a team and should have each others back, which I agree with, but after stressing certain things and them not doing it, I will throw you under that bus in a heartbeat. 

I agree with the first 2 scenarios, but on #3 when you are the plate ump, do you actually say you weren't looking? Isn't there something else you can say so that the coaches and fans (who don't know umpire mechanics) don't think you missed a call?

[noumpere]

This gets brought up in discussions all the time. I don't think you should in most cases throw him under but you shouldn't drag him under either. That is where you go to your partner just to get the coach off your back, especially when you know he is doing other things and couldn't possibly help you. I can think of a couple of times I have no problem tossing and umpire under the bus, and I have. 

1. Batter checkswings, the PU says," Yes he did." Coach asks if he could check it and he does. I'm sorry, if you are dumb enough to come to me on a swung strike, then I will respond," That's not appealable." Then back away and watch bail his way out. 

2. A PU is not putting the ball in play and the pitcher finally makes a close throw over. I simply look at the PU and ask if he had put the ball in play. If he says yes, I make a call, if he says no, sorry boys, the ball is still dead. A life lesson for the PU. 

3. BU yelling across the infield asking about a pull or a swipe when he knows damn well I have runners I am watching and am not looking at first. I will tell him I wasn't looking, can't help. If I am in a position to help I will be happy to help but don't ask when you should know I have nothing. 

I know we always say we are a team and should have each others back, which I agree with, but after stressing certain things and them not doing it, I will throw you under that bus in a heartbeat. 

I agree with the first 2 scenarios, but on #3 when you are the plate ump, do you actually say you weren't looking? Isn't there something else you can say so that the coaches and fans (who don't know umpire mechanics) don't think you missed a call?

I always say what I was looking at so for example -- sorry I was watching #14 touch third

[mstaylor]

I stand corrected. The instances I list apply to guys that have been working, have been through training and either choose to freelance or just not very good. I would never throw a new guy under the bus, but when you profess to be my equal then you better be able to apply simple rules and mechanics. These are not hard concepts and simply mark a lazy umpire. 

It is also not openly calling him out, although umpires understand it is, it is letting him know he has reached his limit on how many free passes he gets. I have seen guys openly yell at a partner on the field, that's crap. I would blacklist someone like that in a second. 

[Jocko]

Saw this Sunday at a game I watched. Noone on. Liner over 1B about head high. BU in "A" bails on any attempt to make a cal and winds up standing in fair ground about 10' from the line. HP judges the ball fair and after play comes to a natural stop, HP blasts his BU about that being HIS call and being out of position.

Would it have hit BU? IDK. Was it fair/foul? No idea. Did BU screw the pooch? Absolutely. But HP made a spectacle of the crew by reacting like that and everyone in the near stands and both teams heard it. Then, between innings, BU came in to HP and argued his case. Stupid.

Guys, this is EXACTLY why pregame is important. And anything like this that needs to be discussed needs to be handled in POSTGAME out of earshot of anyone. :shakehead:

[cyclonehokiece]

Clarify my first post.  Those few instances are the only time I would even consider "blasting my partner" but even then it is not calling him out.  The strike one is informing all that it cannot be done. Coach wants to argue with me, fine, but the rule book is behind me. The ball in play one is making sure that I didn't miss something, and if he changes behavior great.  I am talking with him after the game.  The third one, if I can, I am having a meeting with him to tell him what I have quietly and he makes a ruling. 

[mstaylor]

Jocko, that blasting is exactly what I am saying is wrong. You can not yell at each other on the field. In my cases I am reacting to questions, which to the unenlightened sounds like an answer. To the umpire it should tell him he is screwing up and get his head in the game. In sitch three, if he asks in a meeting, I answer in a meeting. If he yells across the field, phttt, he gets an answer, I wasn't looking, had my own job. 

[IABlue]

Saw this Sunday at a game I watched. Noone on. Liner over 1B about head high. BU in "A" bails on any attempt to make a cal and winds up standing in fair ground about 10' from the line. HP judges the ball fair and after play comes to a natural stop, HP blasts his BU about that being HIS call and being out of position.

Would it have hit BU? IDK. Was it fair/foul? No idea. Did BU screw the pooch? Absolutely. But HP made a spectacle of the crew by reacting like that and everyone in the near stands and both teams heard it. Then, between innings, BU came in to HP and argued his case. Stupid.

Guys, this is EXACTLY why pregame is important. And anything like this that needs to be discussed needs to be handled in POSTGAME out of earshot of anyone.

Anyone that would actually do this ON THE FIELD, in front of God and everyone, is a huge douchebag and is ten times worse than the guy that actually screwed up the mechanic in the first place.

 

It's called professionalism and crewness, two concepts that can be just as important as being in the right position or even getting the call right.

 

The things listed in the OP are borderline in this regard.

[IABlue]

Jocko, that blasting is exactly what I am saying is wrong. You can not yell at each other on the field. In my cases I am reacting to questions, which to the unenlightened sounds like an answer. To the umpire it should tell him he is screwing up and get his head in the game. In sitch three, if he asks in a meeting, I answer in a meeting. If he yells across the field, phttt, he gets an answer, I wasn't looking, had my own job. 

You are trying to rationalize and justify your actions, anyway that you slice it.

 

I understand that it is a little bit different deal when someone is putting you on the spot because they don't know what they're doing or are just plain pussing out in the heat of the moment, but it is a very fine distinction that you're attempting to draw between what in your mind is acceptable behavior and what everyone can agree is well beyond the pale.

 

Some would say that you're showing up your partner on the field in all 3 of those situations.

[KLAH316]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIUp0TPQHcM&sns=em

[Jocko]

Jocko, that blasting is exactly what I am saying is wrong. You can not yell at each other on the field. In my cases I am reacting to questions, which to the unenlightened sounds like an answer. To the umpire it should tell him he is screwing up and get his head in the game. In sitch three, if he asks in a meeting, I answer in a meeting. If he yells across the field, phttt, he gets an answer, I wasn't looking, had my own job. 

I'm fortunate enough to not work with 'That guy'

However, I'm not at all positive how I would react if THAT guy threw his call at me. I like to think I wouuld get together, but if he had been a DB the whole day, who knows :shrug:

[IABlue]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIUp0TPQHcM&sns=em

That is just a brilliant scene.  Whoever wrote that had some decent knowledge of the subject.  I first saw that at a clinic a few years back, and absolutely lost it when PU points at the BU.  A few years later a very good friend of mine actually had a partner do that to him during a real game.  After the game, he kept going on an on and on about how he had never heard of such a thing, and all i could do between my robust fits of laughter was reference this scene.  He was not amused.

[mstaylor]

Jocko, that blasting is exactly what I am saying is wrong. You can not yell at each other on the field. In my cases I am reacting to questions, which to the unenlightened sounds like an answer. To the umpire it should tell him he is screwing up and get his head in the game. In sitch three, if he asks in a meeting, I answer in a meeting. If he yells across the field, phttt, he gets an answer, I wasn't looking, had my own job. 

You are trying to rationalize and justify your actions, anyway that you slice it.

 

I understand that it is a little bit different deal when someone is putting you on the spot because they don't know what they're doing or are just plain pussing out in the heat of the moment, but it is a very fine distinction that you're attempting to draw between what in your mind is acceptable behavior and what everyone can agree is well beyond the pale.

 

Some would say that you're showing up your partner on the field in all 3 of those situations.

I'm not rationalizing squat, I'm telling you what I feel and do. I put it out there to get others thoughts. These are yours, which is fine, but chill the name calling. Now if you want rationalization, I train the guys in my area and some simply refuse to do as taught but feel they are good enough to work any game. I would never reprimand an umpire on the field, that is uncalled for and should never happen. What I said is a subtle way to tell him straighten up. You disagree, that's all good, that's the reason for the thread.  

[yawetag]

Working the plate for a low-level JV game; R1; partner in B. Pitcher completes a sub-par pick-off. BU points at me for the call. I might have paused just as long as Jimmie did in the video before I gave a safe signal.

 

There's two umpires on my block list -- he's one of them.

[Jocko]

Doing Utrip WS a couple years ago. New partner. Pickoff to 1B and he comes pointing with, "Whaddya got?"

My reply "Balls and strikes"

What a maroon

I had forgotten all about this. I guess I do know what I'd do. At least what I have done.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Jocko

[scrounge]

I swear, if someone ever does that point thing, I'm a-gonna point right back at them.

[cyclonehokiece]

I swear, if someone ever does that point thing, I'm a-gonna point right back at them.

And be saying "Your call"

[NFUA_44]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIUp0TPQHcM&sns=em

That is just a brilliant scene.  Whoever wrote that had some decent knowledge of the subject.  I first saw that at a clinic a few years back, and absolutely lost it when PU points at the BU.  A few years later a very good friend of mine actually had a partner do that to him during a real game.  After the game, he kept going on an on and on about how he had never heard of such a thing, and all i could do between my robust fits of laughter was reference this scene.  He was not amused.

That must have been a pretty big clinic if they were using internet spoof video's.

[BalkHawk]

I see NO reason for throwing my partner under a bus, ever. Be proud, don't be quick to lower yourself. Take care of your partner on the field and blast him in the locker room, if you see fit.

1. Just agree that he went.

2. You should KNOW if he put the ball in play. If he didn't, just hold your hands up and tell 'em its a dead ball.

3. Aren't you rotating only on batted balls to the outfield? Are you so engrossed in the touch of third that you have no attention for a whacker play going on in the infield? Call him over, tell him what you have, tell him it is his call and all you can do is add information, and tell him good luck digging himself out of this '46 Ford full of $h!t.

[NFUA_44]

I see NO reason for throwing my partner under a bus, ever. Be proud, don't be so quick to lower yourself. Take care of your partner on the field and blast him in the locker room, if you see fit.

1. Just agree that he went.

2. You should KNOW if he put the ball in play. If he didn't, just hold your hands up and tell 'em its a dead ball.

3. Aren't you rotating only on batted balls to the outfield? Are you so engrossed in the touch of third that you have no attention for a whacker play going on in the infield? Call him over, tell him what you have, tell him it is his call and all you can do is add information, and tell him good luck digging himself out of this '46 Ford full of $h!t.

Hawk, I think the title might be a little misleading. These aren't so much sitch where u are throwing him under the bus as much as he is expecting you to save him from himself.

I would agree u don't want to put the two of u in a bad light by calling him out, but u also don't want to be placed in a bad spot because your doing your job.

There are plenty of times I can't watch the wacker @ 1st. What if I have an R2 who is obstructed going into 3rd, or something else comes off the wheels where I need my eyes on MY primary responsibility? Did he put the ball in play, yeah I should know that but what if he only points? This has happened to me, and its not fun.

The lesson is more for the slacker partner (who has had some training and should know better) to tighten up. Its a lesson much better learned when he has to dig himself out of the sh!tshow himself. Talking about it post game is good, but the uncomfortable lesson is often learned quicker.

I'm pretty sure Micheal wasn't advocating making the crew look bad by berating him on the field, that's not helping anyone.

[mstaylor]

I see NO reason for throwing my partner under a bus, ever. Be proud, don't be quick to lower yourself. Take care of your partner on the field and blast him in the locker room, if you see fit.

1. Just agree that he went.

2. You should KNOW if he put the ball in play. If he didn't, just hold your hands up and tell 'em its a dead ball.

3. Aren't you rotating only on batted balls to the outfield? Are you so engrossed in the touch of third that you have no attention for a whacker play going on in the infield? Call him over, tell him what you have, tell him it is his call and all you can do is add information, and tell him good luck digging himself out of this '46 Ford full of $h!t.

1. It is unappealable, it also lets the coach know he can't appeal it. 

2. Unless he gives a verbal I will not know if he puts it in play because I am watching the pitcher, that's where the ball is. 

3. No, I can be observing the play at first but not have any information for him. Say he is struggling to see a pull because he was in the middle. Now I am down toward third so I have about the same angle from twice as far. No, the rotation is not only on outfield hits. Read the CCA  manual. 

 

I do not propose EVER arguing on the field or directly calling an umpire down. These are methods to make him aware he needs to figure it out. I do not expect everyone to agree, this is why I posted it. Discussion of methods. 

[Jocko]

Employ the "clean your sh*t up" mechanic

[IABlue]

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIUp0TPQHcM&sns=em

That is just a brilliant scene.  Whoever wrote that had some decent knowledge of the subject.  I first saw that at a clinic a few years back, and absolutely lost it when PU points at the BU.  A few years later a very good friend of mine actually had a partner do that to him during a real game.  After the game, he kept going on an on and on about how he had never heard of such a thing, and all i could do between my robust fits of laughter was reference this scene.  He was not amused.

That must have been a pretty big clinic if they were using internet spoof video's.

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

 

I don't know what lame ass clinics that you're attending that don't have 5 minutes to waste so that everyone in the room can get a good laugh, but I'm damn glad that I'm not wasting my time at any of them.

 

And it's not an "Internet spoof video", genius, it's a scene from a major TV show.

[BalkHawk]

1. It is unappealable, it also lets the coach know he can't appeal it.

2. Unless he gives a verbal I will not know if he puts it in play because I am watching the pitcher, that's where the ball is.

3. No, I can be observing the play at first but not have any information for him. Say he is struggling to see a pull because he was in the middle. Now I am down toward third so I have about the same angle from twice as far. No, the rotation is not only on outfield hits. Read the CCA manual.

I do not propose EVER arguing on the field or directly calling an umpire down. These are methods to make him aware he needs to figure it out. I do not expect everyone to agree, this is why I posted it. Discussion of methods.

1. It also lets all the coaches and fans and players know that the PU didn't know it wasn't appeal-able. I won't give them the satisfaction. The call stands one way or the other.

2. Unless F1 is licking his hands, I don't care much about the ball, until it becomes live. Your mention of partners who point with no vocal, or worse is exactly my reason for minding BU. Besides, I can see 'em both, simultaneously. I see no point in expecting my partner to do his job to a "T" when it can leave me painfully unaware.

3. You mean the CCA Manual which contains a mistake about rotations? Wherever PU is, he is responsible for running-lane violations, so he needs to have his eyes there anyways. But if you got nothin' for me, you had obstruction at third and you missed it- Ok. I can go sell my call now as if you did see it too. Before I go, we can concur about base awards, since I get to apply your obstruction. All the cheese-eaters know is that the umpires got together and got it right.

If you want to help an umpire get better, you can either make him look like a horse's ass during HIS game, or you can get real with him during postgame.