5 run rule clarification

[clawdad]

LLB rule set.

 

Our league is preparing to have our mandatory Manager/Coach meeting next week. One of the questions that I'm sure will come up is the 5 run per inning rule. I am looking for clarification on how it is implemented.

 

Do you stop play immediately after the 5th run scores, or do you allow play to relax and then stop and switch sides?

Also - on a situation where more than 5 runs could score (say a Grand Slam when the Offensive team already has 3 runs) I was told to let the kids run the bases and celebrate the HR, but only score the 5 runs allowed under the limit. I would appreciate any guidance on this

[Thunderheads]

Craig,

Won't the meeting clear things up as to what they want you to do?

[sdix00]

LLB rule set.

 

Our league is preparing to have our mandatory Manager/Coach meeting next week. One of the questions that I'm sure will come up is the 5 run per inning rule. I am looking for clarification on how it is implemented.

 

Do you stop play immediately after the 5th run scores, or do you allow play to relax and then stop and switch sides? (Stopping play immediately is dangerous and unnantural.  Let them do what they do.   This is my opinion.  As far as I know, there is no documented mechanic for this.)

Also - on a situation where more than 5 runs could score (say a Grand Slam when the Offensive team already has 3 runs) I was told to let the kids run the bases and celebrate the HR, but only score the 5 runs allowed under the limit. (CORRECT) I would appreciate any guidance on this

(Coaches and board members think they know better, but the fact is, no more than 5 runs may score in minors, save for the final inning, and only with league adoption in the ground rules/bylaws.   Also, point out to them that they will switch sides after batting the lineup, even if they have not yet scored 5 runs or 3 outs.  It is possible.)

[gnhbua93]

It shouldn't be stop after the 5 run is scored.  Imagine that the offensive team had scored 4 runs and have the bases loaded and the batter hit a home run what you do erase the 3 additional runs.  It's not fair and not natural to the game of baseball.

[sdix00]

It shouldn't be stop after the 5 run is scored.  Imagine that the offensive team had scored 4 runs and have the bases loaded and the batter hit a home run what you do erase the 3 additional runs.  It's not fair and not natural to the game of baseball.

 

 

OP question was how is it scored/enforced, not whether the rule was fair. 

 

But, I do agree with you. 

[SoCal Lurker]

It shouldn't be stop after the 5 run is scored.  Imagine that the offensive team had scored 4 runs and have the bases loaded and the batter hit a home run what you do erase the 3 additional runs.  It's not fair and not natural to the game of baseball.

 

And it's not used once they are "really" playing baseball.  It's an imperfect rule to deal with imperfect play and trying to make sure both teams get to bat.  It's not "unfair" as the rule applies equally to both teams. 

 

I'm not a huge fan of the rule, but I have seen games where my only reaction to the rule was "thank god they have that rule or thiis would be more painful than it is . . ."

[gnhbua93]

The Society is going South wanting many kids to participate.  There is no more survival of the fittest or the strong survive in sports no more.  That's sad.

[grayhawk]

The Society is going South wanting many kids to participate.  There is no more survival of the fittest or the strong survive in sports no more.  That's sad.

 

Not true.  Rec ball is a great place for all to play and participate.  Travel/club ball is a great place for survival of the fittest.  There is room, and a place, for both.

[gnhbua93]

Tell that to the majority of the clown parents that try to live their dreams thru their kids and think that rec ball is MLB.

[SnareDrum]

We've been using the 5-run rule in our Rec leagues for a very long time. When the 5th run crosses the plate, the umpire has the option to begin killing the play or to let it continue. An example would be 3 runs in and bases loaded. Batter hits one in the gap to the fence. When R2 touches, I can can "TIME! THAT'S FIVE!" right then, or hold off and see if there's going to be non-important play at 2B. 

 

Batter hits a one hopper to the wallThe coaches prefer that we end the "play" immediately with the 5th run. Partly because we're on the clock, and a few seconds saved can mean the difference in an extra inning.  In the case mentioned above of 4 runs in and a grand slam, one run counts, but we let the BR go ahead and make his trot (in the book, it goes as an RBI single). I don't have to like it, but that's the league rules.

 

We're strongly encouraged to start calling time right away. The play is dead with the 5th run and the umpires will not make any calls at the bases or home at that point.  I will usually wait until a fielder has the ball and the runners have reached each base, then as or when the action ceases, call time.  Usually the coaches and players know and are already leaving the field. The 5-run rule only applies in our rec leagues. 

 

Was in a hurry when I typed this... Happy for input or questions.

[clawdad]

It shouldn't be stop after the 5 run is scored.  Imagine that the offensive team had scored 4 runs and have the bases loaded and the batter hit a home run what you do erase the 3 additional runs.  It's not fair and not natural to the game of baseball.

 

And it's not used once they are "really" playing baseball.  It's an imperfect rule to deal with imperfect play and trying to make sure both teams get to bat.  It's not "unfair" as the rule applies equally to both teams. 

 

I'm not a huge fan of the rule, but I have seen games where my only reaction to the rule was "thank god they have that rule or thiis would be more painful than it is . . ."

Ain't it the truth.

 

Craig,

Won't the meeting clear things up as to what they want you to do?

That's part of the reason I asked.  The board members (and Managers/Coaches) each have differing ideas as how it should implemented (I stated those in my OP).  I wanted some feedback so I can go back to them with what the generally accepted application of the 5-run limit is.  They decided on a 5 run/inning with open last inning to speed games up (which I agree with), but they couldn't agree on HOW it should be used. 

[Thunderheads]

Craig,

Won't the meeting clear things up as to what they want you to do?

That's part of the reason I asked.  The board members (and Managers/Coaches) each have differing ideas as how it should implemented (I stated those in my OP).  I wanted some feedback so I can go back to them with what the generally accepted application of the 5-run limit is.  They decided on a 5 run/inning with open last inning to speed games up (which I agree with), but they couldn't agree on HOW it should be used. 

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My bad, ...I misread that

[clawdad]

Craig,

Won't the meeting clear things up as to what they want you to do?

That's part of the reason I asked.  The board members (and Managers/Coaches) each have differing ideas as how it should implemented (I stated those in my OP).  I wanted some feedback so I can go back to them with what the generally accepted application of the 5-run limit is.  They decided on a 5 run/inning with open last inning to speed games up (which I agree with), but they couldn't agree on HOW it should be used. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

My bad, ...I misread that

no problem

[clawdad]

We've been using the 5-run rule in our Rec leagues for a very long time. When the 5th run crosses the plate, the umpire has the option to begin killing the play or to let it continue. An example would be 3 runs in and bases loaded. Batter hits one in the gap to the fence. When R2 touches, I can can "TIME! THAT'S FIVE!" right then, or hold off and see if there's going to be non-important play at 2B. 

 

Batter hits a one hopper to the wallThe coaches prefer that we end the "play" immediately with the 5th run. Partly because we're on the clock, and a few seconds saved can mean the difference in an extra inning.  In the case mentioned above of 4 runs in and a grand slam, one run counts, but we let the BR go ahead and make his trot (in the book, it goes as an RBI single). I don't have to like it, but that's the league rules.

 

We're strongly encouraged to start calling time right away. The play is dead with the 5th run and the umpires will not make any calls at the bases or home at that point.  I will usually wait until a fielder has the ball and the runners have reached each base, then as or when the action ceases, call time.  Usually the coaches and players know and are already leaving the field. The 5-run rule only applies in our rec leagues. 

Was in a hurry when I typed this... Happy for input or questions.

You and sdix present it just like I figured.  Now I just have to get the rest of the board convinced.

[basejester]

LLB rule set.

Our league is preparing to have our mandatory Manager/Coach meeting next week. One of the questions that I'm sure will come up is the 5 run per inning rule. I am looking for clarification on how it is implemented.

Just to be clear, you're talking about the Minor Division, right? Implementing a 5-run rule in the Major Division (or above) would require a waiver.

Do you stop play immediately after the 5th run scores, or do you allow play to relax and then stop and switch sides?

Personally, I let it play out, because playing it out is more fun than not play it out, especially in a game that goes walk, walk, walk, walk, walk, walk, strikeout, strikeout, walk, walk, ball hit into play. When baseball happens in an event largely devoid of baseball, I don't want to stop it. The downside I can see is someone getting hurt and questioning if proper procedure was followed.

[clawdad]

LLB rule set.

Our league is preparing to have our mandatory Manager/Coach meeting next week. One of the questions that I'm sure will come up is the 5 run per inning rule. I am looking for clarification on how it is implemented.

Just to be clear, you're talking about the Minor Division, right? Implementing a 5-run rule in the Major Division (or above) would require a waiver.

>Do you stop play immediately after the 5th run scores, or do you allow play to relax and then stop and switch sides?

Personally, I let it play out, because playing it out is more fun than not play it out, especially in a game that goes walk, walk, walk, walk, walk, walk, strikeout, strikeout, walk, walk, ball hit into play. When baseball happens in an event largely devoid of baseball, I don't want to stop it. The downside I can see is someone getting hurt and questioning if proper procedure was followed.

 

Minors- for sure.  They wanted to use it for Majors, and I advised them that they would need a waiver.  I am not exactly sure if they got it or not.

[SnareDrum]

What basejester said about a possible injury is one reason why we're encouraged to start stopping action as soon as we can. Example (saw it happen): R1 & R3, 4 runs in, batter hits a screamer up the RF line and the umpire let it all play out after R3 scored. R1 was hustling all the way home, and the throw from the cutoff man was high as the runner slid hard and undercut F2 when he jumped for the ball. Landed on his neck and head. It looked scary but nobody was hurt... however the BR sliding headfirst into 3B chipped his tooth.

 

We strictly enforce our clock/game-ending rules (seconds do matter), and two or three instances of letting it play out could cost an entire inning.  If I'm a coach or player, I'd prefer the extra inning over an extra play. At the meeting, just talk it over with the directors and coaches... toss around some scenarios... decide on the the true objectives of the rule... you'll come to a consensus and as the season moves, do some tweaking and it will all come together in a way that please (almost) everybody..

[Jocko]

LLB rule set.Our league is preparing to have our mandatory Manager/Coach meeting next week. One of the questions that I'm sure will come up is the 5 run per inning rule. I am looking for clarification on how it is implemented.

Just to be clear, you're talking about the Minor Division, right? Implementing a 5-run rule in the Major Division (or above) would require a waiver.

Do you stop play immediately after the 5th run scores, or do you allow play to relax and then stop and switch sides?

Personally, I let it play out, because playing it out is more fun than not play it out, especially in a game that goes walk, walk, walk, walk, walk, walk, strikeout, strikeout, walk, walk, ball hit into play. When baseball happens in an event largely devoid of baseball, I don't want to stop it. The downside I can see is someone getting hurt and questioning if proper procedure was followed.Exactly why I don't call Upward......err.... I mean LL

[sdix00]

What basejester said about a possible injury is one reason why we're encouraged to start stopping action as soon as we can. Example (saw it happen): R1 & R3, 4 runs in, batter hits a screamer up the RF line and the umpire let it all play out after R3 scored. R1 was hustling all the way home, and the throw from the cutoff man was high as the runner slid hard and undercut F2 when he jumped for the ball. Landed on his neck and head. It looked scary but nobody was hurt... however the BR sliding headfirst into 3B chipped his tooth.

 

We strictly enforce our clock/game-ending rules (seconds do matter), and two or three instances of letting it play out could cost an entire inning.  If I'm a coach or player, I'd prefer the extra inning over an extra play. At the meeting, just talk it over with the directors and coaches... toss around some scenarios... decide on the the true objectives of the rule... you'll come to a consensus and as the season moves, do some tweaking and it will all come together in a way that please (almost) everybody..

 

 

Ironic that Safety is the primary reason I DO let it play out.   When I yell "Time!" or "Switch it up" or whatever, some kids stop what they are doing and turn for the dugout.   Others take a couple extra beats to shut it down.   I have nightmares of killing the action, some kid turning his head to look at me, and another kid  throwing the ball in from the outfield.   I would feel responsible for that injury. 

 

This is why I let them play.  Occasionally a coach will tell the 6th run to just keep running while the defense tries to get him out.   That may also sound dangerous, but when it's 9 year olds it's usually just fun. 

[clawdad]

Make no mistake, I would have no issue with them playing straight up baseball by the LL rulebook; no waivers, no local rules.  I have even advised coaches whose teams are getting slaughtered that "you can end the game early if you wish" (meaning forfeit). But none of them bite.  They would rather continue to put their players through the wringer, have the score run up on them to "teach their players a lesson", and get themselves pissed off in the process.  Then listen to the parents and coaches complain that the games are taking too long. 

 

Meanwhile, I'm out in the blazing sun from 10 a.m. until 2 p.m. in my plate gear.  I guess I could always call from behind F1

[KLAH316]

What basejester said about a possible injury is one reason why we're encouraged to start stopping action as soon as we can. Example (saw it happen): R1 & R3, 4 runs in, batter hits a screamer up the RF line and the umpire let it all play out after R3 scored. R1 was hustling all the way home, and the throw from the cutoff man was high as the runner slid hard and undercut F2 when he jumped for the ball. Landed on his neck and head. It looked scary but nobody was hurt... however the BR sliding headfirst into 3B chipped his tooth.

 

We strictly enforce our clock/game-ending rules (seconds do matter), and two or three instances of letting it play out could cost an entire inning.  If I'm a coach or player, I'd prefer the extra inning over an extra play. At the meeting, just talk it over with the directors and coaches... toss around some scenarios... decide on the the true objectives of the rule... you'll come to a consensus and as the season moves, do some tweaking and it will all come together in a way that please (almost) everybody..

 

 

Ironic that Safety is the primary reason I DO let it play out.   When I yell "Time!" or "Switch it up" or whatever, some kids stop what they are doing and turn for the dugout.   Others take a couple extra beats to shut it down.   I have nightmares of killing the action, some kid turning his head to look at me, and another kid  throwing the ball in from the outfield.   I would feel responsible for that injury. 

 

This is why I let them play.  Occasionally a coach will tell the 6th run to just keep running while the defense tries to get him out.   That may also sound dangerous, but when it's 9 year olds it's usually just fun. 

I agree with Dix.... In the LL that I am UIC for, we wait for the play to end but only 5 runs count.  Our board has decided that it is safer this way and it allows the kids to play.

[Engineer]

In my rec league for the age groups that use the 5 run rule, they let the final play continue to completion and all runs count. For example, 4 runs in the inning and a kid hits a grand slam, all  8 runs count and the inning is over.

[SnareDrum]

There can be safety issues either way. Where we are, we've had the rule in place for over a decade. The league book even says, "When the 5th run scores... the ball is dead... It's not like I'm running out to them mound screaming and waving as soon as the 5th crosses. I try to do it within the flow of the play while still getting it shut down as soon as possible. I think it just comes down to working with the coaches and league officials to decide on what works best for that league, then standardize it so that regardless of the field or crew, more players/coaches know what to expect. As I mentioned, the coaches like it shut down sooner than later (they have A LOT of say-so around here), mainly due to the clock factor where even one second can mean the difference between a shot at winning, or just going home with the loss. Keep us posted clawdad!!

[Rich Ives]

It shouldn't be stop after the 5 run is scored.  Imagine that the offensive team had scored 4 runs and have the bases loaded and the batter hit a home run what you do erase the 3 additional runs.  It's not fair and not natural to the game of baseball.

 

Neither is having a limit in the first place.  Or batting the lineup. Or stopping after the lineup goes through once no matter what. This is minors. Without the limits innings can go on forever.

 

But it is fair because it applies equally to both teams.

 

Don't like LL rules - go elsewhere.

[semper_fi_72]

It shouldn't be stop after the 5 run is scored.  Imagine that the offensive team had scored 4 runs and have the bases loaded and the batter hit a home run what you do erase the 3 additional runs.  It's not fair and not natural to the game of baseball.

It is Little League Minors.

It is not Baseball