Balk? video- spin move

[Rich Ives]

Jocko- I will guess that the 4th man was not paid, or maybe he was and they are gearing up for conference games.

MJR and Mr Umpire- I have to disagree here. With four umpires and R1 only, no less than two umpires should have their eyes glued to the pitcher's free foot. This isn't easy to spot, but it is our job. When the manager comes out raising hell, are you going to tell him you were hands on knees, staring at the pitcher's feet, but you had a bad angle?

Rich Ives- a jab step is a legal pickoff move indeed, and as you pointed out, the pitcher is counted to be engaged still after a jab step move. HOWEVER, as you also stated, the "jab" of the pivot foot must be followed by a legal step toward first base with the non-pivot foot before throwing there and must be continuous and without interruption.

 

He did follow it with a legal step to 1B, so why the HOWEVER?

 

There's no balk here.

[Replacematt]

Watch his free foot, and only his free foot.

[UmpJM]

That's a BALK!!!

 

The pitcher's free foot initially moves in the direction of the pitcher's plate, then changes direction towards 1st  base when the pitcher goes into his "jump spin". He has failed the requirement that his step to the base be "direct" (because he "altered" the direction his free foot was moving after he started moving it.)

 

Balk all day, any level where they call balks.

 

JM

[zm1283]

That's a BALK!!!

 

The pitcher's free foot initially moves in the direction of the pitcher's plate, then changes direction towards 1st  base when the pitcher goes into his "jump spin". He has failed the requirement that his step to the base be "direct" (because he "altered" the direction his free foot was moving after he started moving it.)

 

Balk all day, any level where they call balks.

 

JM

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Thank you.  This is a balk at every level above high school JV.  Most high school pitchers aren't good enough to do it well though anyway.  He broke his front knee.

 

The SEC is 4-man now by the way.  

[sdix00]

That's a BALK!!!

 

The pitcher's free foot initially moves in the direction of the pitcher's plate, then changes direction towards 1st  base when the pitcher goes into his "jump spin". He has failed the requirement that his step to the base be "direct" (because he "altered" the direction his free foot was moving after he started moving it.)

 

Balk all day, any level where they call balks.

 

JM

 

 

I can buy that.   

 

All I can say is I don't call college ball and I see clumsy pitchers make worse moves than this on a regular basis.  maybe six times in a game?   I don't know what kind of ball game I would have if I called that. 

 

But, if the college guys say this is a balk, then its a balk. 

 

The only time I actually enforced something this subtle was when R1 took the bait and nearly broke his ankle trying to get back to 1B.  Killed it and had him limp to 2B. 

[BalkHawk]

Nowhere do the rules mention the runner actually being fooled as a requirement for a balk. They do say you can't come set and then pick up your free foot and drop it back in the same place. Not even if you finally do step to the base.

 

 

[Rich Ives]

That's a BALK!!!

 

The pitcher's free foot initially moves in the direction of the pitcher's plate, then changes direction towards 1st  base when the pitcher goes into his "jump spin". He has failed the requirement that his step to the base be "direct" (because he "altered" the direction his free foot was moving after he started moving it.)

 

Balk all day, any level where they call balks.

 

JM

 

 

Well gee that;s really nice but up to here the whole discussion was whether the jab with the pivot foot was legal or nor.

[Replacematt]

I suggest reading the whole thread. The first dozen posts or so had no mention of the jab step.

[Thunderheads]

ok, so, this SEC 4 man crew did not call this a balk.   And, all we have is a slow-mo version ...... do we have a real speed version and what does it look like?

 

When I watched it first off in the OP (slow motion) I saw his front foot/leg move first before the spin and said 'balk' to myself, but after watching it again, I'm not too sure how clear this would be at real speed ........

[zm1283]

That's a BALK!!!

 

The pitcher's free foot initially moves in the direction of the pitcher's plate, then changes direction towards 1st  base when the pitcher goes into his "jump spin". He has failed the requirement that his step to the base be "direct" (because he "altered" the direction his free foot was moving after he started moving it.)

 

Balk all day, any level where they call balks.

 

JM

 

 

Well gee that;s really nice but up to here the whole discussion was whether the jab with the pivot foot was legal or nor.

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The jab with the pivot foot was completely legal.  The problem is that the front knee broke before the jab step, hence the reason for a balk.

 

ok, so, this SEC 4 man crew did not call this a balk.   And, all we have is a slow-mo version ...... do we have a real speed version and what does it look like?

 

When I watched it first off in the OP (slow motion) I saw his front foot/leg move first before the spin and said 'balk' to myself, but after watching it again, I'm not too sure how clear this would be at real speed ........

______________________________________________________________________________________________

 

It would not be that clear at real speed.  It is hard to pick up with a pitcher that knows what he is doing.

[Rich Ives]

I suggest reading the whole thread. The first dozen posts or so had no mention of the jab step.

I suggest you go back and read the post that said

 

"He lifts/steps back with his non pivot foot  before spinning and stepping to 1st."

 

and all the following posts that referenced it.

[Jocko]

I suggest reading the whole thread. The first dozen posts or so had no mention of the jab step.

I suggest you go back and read the post that said "He lifts/steps back with his non pivot foot  before spinning and stepping to 1st." and all the following posts that referenced it.Rainman, you have a video ref of a legal jabstep?

[Haid D' Salaami]

That's a BALK!!!

 

The pitcher's free foot initially moves in the direction of the pitcher's plate, then changes direction towards 1st  base when the pitcher goes into his "jump spin". He has failed the requirement that his step to the base be "direct" (because he "altered" the direction his free foot was moving after he started moving it.)

 

Balk all day, any level where they call balks.

 

JM

____________________________________________________________________________________--

 

Thank you.  This is a balk at every level above high school JV.  Most high school pitchers aren't good enough to do it well though anyway.  He broke his front knee.

 

The SEC is 4-man now by the way.  

SEC Conference games only... Some SEC schools are using 4 man for all games, and some are using 4man for some of the Non-Conference games.

[Haid D' Salaami]

Some of you guys are so quick to judge, " these umpires are so wrong".. but until your working that game in front of 10k fans and on TV... don't judge... I got an ass chewing for this.... you will not progress anywhere int he college ranks.. and I know some of you have no desire to move up ( i don't believe that) but little things like talking about your umpires, your games, or things that happen will ( and trust me from personal experience), Will hold you back.

[BalkHawk]

^^^horseSH*# ^^^

Nobody here said one negative word about the umpires working here. Not one person evaluated any of them. IN NO WAY DID ANYONE SAY THEY WERE WRONG.

This is about recognizing balks. Hard to recognize balks. Studying minutia so when we get a shot, we can confidently make the correct call. Its a damn hard call to make, and that is why we all owe it to baseball to have this discussion. This is where we earn our paycheck.

[Jocko]

Plus I've been to a boatload of college games. Never seen anywhere near 10,000 (except conference tourney, which I attend 80% of the games every year [sEC]) at a DI regular season game.

[Haid D' Salaami]

This was NOT called a balk. 

Again, these esteemed umpires work SEC games, I only watch on t.v. and nit-pick in slo-mo.

They were working four-man.

This is completely out of context, and if you knew the context, you would know a balk call in this situation would be absolutely critical. Tie game, last inning. (not that I have found any rules, comments, or interps that suggest the context has anything to do with a balk call)

So your context here, almost sounds like your saying that these are are SEC guys how could they be wrong..

 

FYI 3 of the 4 guys in the game have worked the CWS, so they must be doing something right?...

[zm1283]

This was NOT called a balk. 

Again, these esteemed umpires work SEC games, I only watch on t.v. and nit-pick in slo-mo.

They were working four-man.

This is completely out of context, and if you knew the context, you would know a balk call in this situation would be absolutely critical. Tie game, last inning. (not that I have found any rules, comments, or interps that suggest the context has anything to do with a balk call)

So your context here, almost sounds like your saying that these are are SEC guys how could they be wrong..

 

FYI 3 of the 4 guys in the game have worked the CWS, so they must be doing something right?...

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I don't think anyone criticized the umpires themselves.  At least I didn't get that impression from reading the thread.  I think this is a very hard balk to get and most guys wouldn't get it at full speed in real time.  

[Mr Umpire]

I suggest reading the whole thread. The first dozen posts or so had no mention of the jab step.

I suggest you go back and read the post that said

 

"He lifts/steps back with his non pivot foot  before spinning and stepping to 1st."

 

and all the following posts that referenced it.

A quote of who it was directed towards would have helped.  I was not referencing the jab step.  I was referring to the slight movement of his free foot.  That is what I have a balk for in this SLOW motion video.  If in live regular action, I may/probably would not.  It was slight and probably pretty quick which is why it went unnoticed.

[Mr Umpire]

Jocko- I will guess that the 4th man was not paid, or maybe he was and they are gearing up for conference games.

MJR and Mr Umpire- I have to disagree here. With four umpires and R1 only, no less than two umpires should have their eyes glued to the pitcher's free foot. This isn't easy to spot, but it is our job. When the manager comes out raising hell, are you going to tell him you were hands on knees, staring at the pitcher's feet, but you had a bad angle?

Rich Ives- a jab step is a legal pickoff move indeed, and as you pointed out, the pitcher is counted to be engaged still after a jab step move. HOWEVER, as you also stated, the "jab" of the pivot foot must be followed by a legal step toward first base with the non-pivot foot before throwing there and must be continuous and without interruption.

When the manager comes out raising hell, my answer to him will be I do not have a balk on the play.   That's it.  End of discussion.  Nothing more to discuss since it can't be replayed to see if I should have called something.

[BalkHawk]

pppbpbpbbbttt

[Jocko]

I doubt any HC would argue much for this to be called. He wouldn't want it called against him.

[BalkHawk]

He wants to dictate the strike zone. He wants every appeal to go his way. He wants two visits to the mound for the price of one. He wants to be taller.

He can't, they don't, that's two visits, and God made him short but the Napoleon complex is his own.

As for the pitcher's free foot, I got my eye on that SH*#. I'm a damn balk hawk and I stay ready to catch any pitcher on my mound, never minding if he knows a jab-step is not a disengage, or if he even knows the Official Rules of Baseball has a chapter 8.

[MidAmUmp]

I was finally able to view this video.  The move is a balk.  It's a very tough call for the 1st base umpire to see in live action.  I've missed it several times.  

[BT_Blue]

"Hid made him short but the Napoleon Complex is his own." CLASSIC!