fair ball/base hit.. nfhs case

[Ring 'em Up]

Case:  BR (book states B1) hits a hits a fly ball that comes down on foul ground, (A) between home and first or (.b.) beyond first. In each case before it has touched anyone, it rolls into fair ground first, where it is then fielded or lies on the ground.

 

Your Ruling for.. A & B.

 

i'll post what the nfhs case states.. but i think the book (or PDF which i have) is wrong.

 

a: fair ball

b: foul ball.

 

my point..?  the ball in each case has landed in foul territory first, then rolled into fair ground..   isn't this a foul in each instance?

 

ron-

[UmpJM]

ron,

 

The case book is correct.

 

A batted ball which has not yet passed 1st or 3rd base does not have its fair/foul status determined until it touches someone, settles, or touches a "foreign object" while on or over foul territory.

 

JM

[Called3rdStrike]

A: fair ball. The ball cam to rest between home and first before being fielded or touched.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=22734353&c_id=mlb&topic_id=vtp_must_c

B: foul. Ball landed foul beyond first. Then rolled fair.

[Ring 'em Up]

OK.. wow.. and all this time i thought wrong....  darn..!

 

thanks!

 

oh.. and thanks for the video.. very in-lighting.!

 

ron-

[Ring 'em Up]

i feel like an idiot asking all these questions.. so please bear with me.  the explanations, and the video are all appreciated believe me.

 

ron-  

[Called3rdStrike]

Not a problem Ron. Remember balls that hit down the line and hop over the base from fair to foul are fair balls too.

[yawetag]

This rule is the same for all rulebooks. Fed, however, adds one other determination of a fair/foul line: an imaginary line that extends from 1B to 3B.

 

Take this case play: No runners on, no outs. BR hits a fly ball that first lands untouched between the pitcher's mound and 2B, about at the grass cutout. The ball takes a sharp turn and bounds untouched past the 3B foul line, where it is touched by F2.

 

How would you call it in Fed, OBR, and NCAA?

[Jocko]

Another case in fed book has ball hitting pitching rubber untouuched by a fielder in fair ground and ricochets to foul where it's picked up. Fair or foul?

[Ring 'em Up]

Another case in fed book has ball hitting pitching rubber untouuched by a fielder in fair ground and ricochets to foul where it's picked up. Fair or foul?

though i'm a rookie here.. i would think that even thou it hit the rubber, the picked up ball is.. fair, and maybe fielded to 1b for an out.

 

hahaha.. but what do i know..

 

ron-

[Richvee]

A batted ball that hits off the rubber and comes to rest untouched in foul ground is foul in all codes. In FED, the imaginary line between 1st and 3rd passes behind the rubber. The ball never passed it, so it's foul.

 

In the example where the ball lands behind the mound, untouched and has crazy english on it and rolls foul between 3rd and home and then touched by F2, would be fair in FED because it passed the imaginary line between 1st and 3rd. . I believe in OBR this would be foul because the ball needs to pass the baseline drawn from 1st and 3rd towards 2nd before settling in foul ground to be considered fair. 

[spiritump]

Case:  BR (book states B1) hits a hits a fly ball that comes down on foul ground, (A) between home and first or (.b.) beyond first. In each case before it has touched anyone, it rolls into fair ground first, where it is then fielded or lies on the ground.

 

Your Ruling for.. A & B.

 

i'll post what the nfhs case states.. but i think the book (or PDF which i have) is wrong.

 

a: fair ball

b: foul ball.

 

my point..?  the ball in each case has landed in foul territory first, then rolled into fair ground..   isn't this a foul in each instance?

 

ron-

before you step on the field make sure you know the rules--not just think you know them--learn all the rule book--no one rule is more important any other

[Ring 'em Up]

before you step on the field make sure you know the rules--not just think you know them--learn all the rule book--no one rule is more important any other

which is the exact reason i'm studying early and asking questions here now.  because i know i don't know the rule(s).  

ron-

[Jocko]

Ron, keep asking questions. I'm proud you are. Knowledge is power. I recommend attending as many clinics as you can before opening day. Kinda like cramming. What level ball are you intending to officiate?

[th3]

ron - in one of my very 1st games, i had a ball that was squibbed off the bat into foul territory and then rolled, with a lot of spin in a banana shape toward 1st, eventually settling against the side of the bag (on the line)...i called it foul and then went home and learned the rule

[dumbdumb]

rs

 

The only idiot question, is the idiot question not asked. As long as everyone can tell you are new and not just trying to stir the pot, the veterans on here will be glad to help you and not hinder you in your quest to be the best you can be. Not everyone has a photographic memory, so a lot of umpiring is trial and error, both with the rules and on the field. Some will grasp it better and quicker than others, no problem. It is where you finish in the end that counts. You will always be learning knew things with rule changes every year, and how they want them implemented and interpreted.

 

Try and figure out the answer using the rule book first (some things are crossed referenced in more than one area, and always remember the "definitions" section as I believe MST has mentioned before. Read the rule first, then to the case book for how the rule is to be applied. If you are still grappling with both the rule and case book play(s), by all means, ask away. Learning to be a better umpire is what this site is all about.

 

Now, remember, some guys may bust on you a little bit, but this site is not about ripping into you and expecting you to have an S on your chest from day 1, especially if you are not a veteran umpire. Later, when you are, you may get busted on a little bit more, but once again, from what I can tell about this site, this is a site for learning and gathering the best umpiring information out there. The UIC can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that is what he wishes for on this site, rather than blasting away at umpires day and night, even when they are proven wrong, which any armchair quarterback can do. Just like in life, you can take 50 umpires and make them work their butts off at umpiring day and night, no slacking, for 3 straight years, and some umpires will be better than others, and some, significantly better, and there is nothing you can do that will change this. However, this site tries to prepare you, the best it can, for all things dealing with umpiring, as you can see from the various categories on this site.

 

Good luck this year, and keep asking questions for the rules and plays you just don't quite understand or that seem confusing.

[Ring 'em Up]

Ron, keep asking questions. I'm proud you are. Knowledge is power. I recommend attending as many clinics as you can before opening day. Kinda like cramming. What level ball are you intending to officiate?

 

 

High School..  

 

the association i'm entering has the clinics, but after jan 14th.  i'll look in the so cal area and see what i can find.  thanks for asking,

 

I wanted to thank everyone for their input.. again totally appreciated.

ron-

[Jocko]

I also recommend a 2 man mechanics manual (you may be able to buy at your clinic). While they can be extremely boring and monotonous to read for some, most answers are there. My thread about BU play at the plate is a case in point. I had the book and the answer is in it, I just hadn't read it enough to remember. Keep a rule/case book in your desk, download to your phone/tablet, and keep one in the bathroom. And when you have a ? ask. JM is the rule authoritarian. Pete Peterson, Sr. is my personal goto rules guy in my hs/travel assoc. He's a smartass but a very knowledgable one.

[spiritump]

before you step on the field make sure you know the rules--not just think you know them--learn all the rule book--no one rule is more important any other

which is the exact reason i'm studying early and asking questions here now.  because i know i don't know the rule(s).  

ron-

Ron do not take what I said in the wrong way--when you are on the field YOU have to know the rules--you can not say wait I have to look something up.  I suggest you learn how to read the rule book(sometimes the answers are not black and white) and take your time to understand each rule. and how to rule on the play (case book is a great tool).

[mstaylor]

I have always suggested to study a rule or situation until you are comfortable with how to call it, then, ask questions about it. I have been in the situation where I thought I had it until I asked about it or it happened and I was wrong. You will always make mistakes, the object is to make it the exception not the rule.

[yawetag]

Ron, if you need help with fair/foul decisions, I've got a file somewhere of 20 or so different scenarios and you have to choose fair or foul. If you want it, PM me your email address.

[Jocko]

I don't usually advocate youtube umpiring videos, but this one isn't THAT bad.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zuio0TBfWBQ

Just remember it's where the ball is in relation to the line when it stops, is touched, or bounds (bounces) over 1B or 3B.