Rules Quiz-You Make the Call

[Jocko]

Guys this is an Intrep from the MLB manual and the PBUC manual.. this is not a immediate dead ball.. you have to wait to determine the status of the ball...  know what the rules say, but there is an intrep.

I'm not doubting you, if you say it's there, it probably is. Problem is, I can't find it. Section 7 of my PBUCUM covers INT and OBS. I can't find reference to IFF other than hits runner on base (7.7) and IFF hits runner not on base (7.8). Please reference this so I can find it.

[GreyhoundAggie]

Ok, one final wrinkle. I am going to direct this one at UmpTTS43 since he seems pretty experienced.

UmpTTS you are the crew chief and working first base on a weekend series. This situation occurs but the ball lands in fair territory on what would have been a textbook IFF. Your young but promising plate umpire call "Interference!" on R3 before anyone calls IFF. He says "Interference, thats interference!" but never the word "TIME". Your 3rd base guy then calls IFF, and is then echoed by your PU. Once ball hits ground, PU calls time, points at and declares R3 out, and then points at and declares the BR out on IFF. Offensive coach comes out steaming since he now has two outs in what looked to be a very promising situation (bases loaded, no outs). He "WTF"s your PU about 8x, and after initially standing his ground, agrees to talk it over with the crew. You huddle up with you partners.

I'd love to hear you take it step by step from here...

Interesting scenario. But not entirely unlikely.

1st - since I am observing this from A position, as soon as coaches start coming out I know we have a situation. As CC I may, more than likely, bring the crew together to find out our situation immediately after the coach questions the sitch. The order of events and calls will even have me asking questions. I will need to hear what each guy has, put that with what I observed on the play and go from there.

Since R3 committed INT on F5 with an IFF sitch, both the INT and the IFF call belong to the PU (IFF if fair).

That being said, I'm going to ask the PU when the INT occurred. ln his opinion, did it occur prior to the IFF being established? I would have a good look at it also so I could chime in. I will also get U2s thoughts.

What we will determine is if the criteria for the IFF was met prior to the INT. If it was then we will get both outs under FED and possibly NCAA. If it wasn't then we will get the out on R3 and place BR at 1st moving other runners up. Under OBR, since the INT call came first, the IFF did not come into play. Either way, I will explain the ruling to both coaches and let the chips fall where they may.

There will be a thorough post game covering rules and responsibilities for plays such as these.

 

UmpTTS43,

I was reading through this and wanted to double check the thinking on this. I ump HS ball as well.

You would get two outs by NFHS rules if the IFF was established before the INT because an out has been made, and then you get the out for R3's INT? If the INT occurs before the call of IFF it's only the out on R3 because of the INT, the IFF can't take effect because the ball is dead on the INT?

What happens on the case of the ball is right on the line, you call "IFF if fair", but the INT occurs and the ball is dead and then the IFF never had the chance to happen for sure. Do you still get both outs?

 

Also to check my understanding.

If there is no IFF in effect, and R3 inteferes with a foul pop up. R3 is out and B/R goes back to bat. If it's a fair pop up, R3 is out and B/R is awarded first.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

GreyhoundAggie

6 yrs TASO

[mjr_2013]

I have the flu and this thread is making my head hurt...  

 

I'll re-read it and learn something in a couple days.

 

Welcome to the board, GreyhoundAggie!

[GreyhoundAggie]

Thanks. Good to be here. Always enjoy boards like these. I learn something new every time.

 

Just wanna be the best.

[JaxRolo]

Just wanna be the best.

To late! Jocko is the best!

We just haven't figured out at what.

[Jocko]

Just wanna be the best.

To late! Jocko is the best!We just haven't figured out at what.The best worst umpire ever :kissass:

[BalkHawk]

hey chuck, did you mean 7.08? And help me understand because like a couple others, I was of the impression that without interference, you can't have INT. If the third baseman caught the ball how can he have been hindered?

[Jocko]

Guys this is an Intrep from the MLB manual and the PBUC manual.. this is not a immediate dead ball.. you have to wait to determine the status of the ball...  know what the rules say, but there is an intrep.

I'm not doubting you, if you say it's there, it probably is. Problem is, I can't find it. Section 7 of my PBUCUM covers INT and OBS. I can't find reference to IFF other than hits runner on base (7.7) and IFF hits runner not on base (7.8). Please reference this so I can find it.

I guess that your no response to the reference request tells me what I need to know. I pored through the PBUCUM as well as PBUC2M and find zero regarding this type of play. If you have it, please share it. I'm at the point now where I don't believe it's in there. Please prove me wrong.

[NFUA_44]

hey chuck, did you mean 7.08? And help me understand because like a couple others, I was of the impression that without interference, you can't have INT. If the third baseman caught the ball how can he have been hindered?

The INT happens irregardless of the final outcome, which is why in MOST cases its dead at the moment the INT happens. In this case we have other things going on that (ala the other part of the mechanic that is being debated here) require us to determine the status of the ball after everything comes to a halt.

This discussion is exactly why this forum is so important. I can't say I would have gotten it right mechanically before atinfact I prob wouldn't have), but now I see why in this case you would announce the INT when it happens, but hold up on the Time call until the status of the ball announces itself. At a minimum its going to make the convo with the crew and the coach a lot easier to sort out, even if it's not the written mechanic. Like Jocko though I would love to know if there is a OI somewhere with guidance on it. Looking thru my CCA and MLBUM I can't find it, the PBUC is about the only one I don't have.