Odd pitching motion

[Called3rdStrike]

RHP straddling the rubber. ball in hand moves right leg onto rubber and comes set at the same time. Proceeds to pitch from this set position. Legal?

[johnnyg08]

RHP straddling the rubber. ball in hand moves right leg onto rubber and comes set at the same time. Proceeds to pitch from this set position. Legal?

What do you have that is illegal?

Can of worms here, but is he taking signs from the rubber?

Look in the rule book, see what the requirements are for there to be a legal position from the stretch. If it's not listed as illegal, then it is legal.

Remember this for the duration of your umpiring career: "odd does not equal illegal."

[Jocko]

Beware the quick pitch

[Dannytheman]

I got nothing..

[noumpere]

By rule he cant come set until he takes the rubber ("

Preparatory to coming to a set position, the pitcher shall have one hand on his side;

from this position he shall go to his set position as defined in Rule 8.01(B) without

interruption and in one continuous motion.")

but as described its probably not something to worry about.

Note too that there isnt a penalty associated with violating this so you just make him do it right.

[mstaylor]

The problem with him not doing it right is he gains an unfair advantage over the runner. Smart runners are not taking a lead until he is on the rubber. If he is stepping on as he is coming set then the runner can not get a lead. Fix it.

[Mr Umpire]

The runner not being able to get his lead is not my problem. I only ensure the pitcher is not doing something illegal. He can address the rubber and come set very quickly before a runner gets their lead. Some pitchers are very good at this to disrupt a runner's timing.

It sounds like he is doing something illegal with no penalty. It is just a "Don't do that" unless he quick pitches. Be prepared to hear the "He has done this all year and no other umpire has ever called it." Or, "I have never heard that" though they would have if they bothered to read the rule book :lookup

[mstaylor]

The runner not being able to get his lead is not my problem. I only ensure the pitcher is not doing something illegal. He can address the rubber and come set very quickly before a runner gets their lead. Some pitchers are very good at this to disrupt a runner's timing.

It sounds like he is doing something illegal with no penalty. It is just a "Don't do that" unless he quick pitches. Be prepared to hear the "He has done this all year and no other umpire has ever called it." Or, "I have never heard that" though they would have if they bothered to read the rule book

That's why I say fix it, not penalize it. Make him do what he is supposed to do.

[johnnyg08]

That's why I say fix it, not penalize it. Make him do what he is supposed to do.

If he doesn't fix it, as a last resort you can eject him for noncompliance.

[Mr Umpire]

The runner not being able to get his lead is not my problem. I only ensure the pitcher is not doing something illegal. He can address the rubber and come set very quickly before a runner gets their lead. Some pitchers are very good at this to disrupt a runner's timing.

It sounds like he is doing something illegal with no penalty. It is just a "Don't do that" unless he quick pitches. Be prepared to hear the "He has done this all year and no other umpire has ever called it." Or, "I have never heard that" though they would have if they bothered to read the rule book

That's why I say fix it, not penalize it. Make him do what he is supposed to do.

The OP sounds like an illegal issue. Not sure without seeing it. But, some do this very quickly and it is not illegal. They address the rubber legally and then come set. Again, the runner not being able to get a lead is not my problem. Especially if there is nothing to fix.

[renegadewolf]

once the pitcher steps on the rubber and comes to set, as long as his foot makes motion towards the plate and he has come to a pause it's all good. I've come across pitchers who don't do the whole leg swing after coming to set and I don't see anything wrong with it as long as he goes home with the throw. He stands in set lifts his front foot up and goes forward. Carry on nothing to see here, other than a pitcher who isn't getting nearly the power behind his pitch that he could with a full windup.

[Jocko]

once the pitcher steps on the rubber and comes to set, as long as his foot makes motion towards the plate and he has come to a pause it's all good. I've come across pitchers who don't do the whole leg swing after coming to set and I don't see anything wrong with it as long as he goes home with the throw. He stands in set lifts his front foot up and goes forward. Carry on nothing to see here, other than a pitcher who isn't getting nearly the power behind his pitch that he could with a full windup.

someone is going to blast you for saying a windup from the set position.

I know what you meant ;)

[spiritump]

if he is not moving his hands while he is stepping on the rubber--that is legal but if he is doing both at the same time that is illegal

[mstaylor]

If he is stepping on and coming set at the same time, if he has a quick set then he is gaining an advantage over the batter also. He can be flirting with a QP if he isn't careful. But stepping on and coming set are two different actions and are so for a reason. They do not need to be long separate motions but they need to be decernable.

[Guest Nick Pretnar]

I've seen this before and corrected the kid and told him if he did it again, I would balk him. You don't see this stuff happen at the higher levels, mostly only in youth ball, so there's a bit of leeway in enforcement anyway. No high school or collegiate pitcher would ever come set in this manner, simultaneously stepping on to the rubber while coming set. Technically it's illegal. And even more technically, it's unconventional and can be argued to be an act of deceiving the runner and thus is a BALK. There is no wishy-washy middleground on the balk rule. It either is or it isn't. And if in a game you start giving too much leeway and correcting problems without properly penalizing them, then you get into trouble and create that wishy-washy middleground that nobody likes, because it's so arbitrary and open to argumentation.

[noumpere]

Under what rule do you have this as a balk and please dont just say deceiving the runner because thats not in and of itself a balk.

[UmpJM]

From 8.01( b )...

Preparatory to coming to a set position, the pitcher shall have one hand on his side;

from this position he shall go to his set position as defined in Rule 8.01( b ) without

interruption and in one continuous motion.

If he's bringing his hands together as he steps on, he does not have "...one hand on his side...".

It's a "don't do that".

JM

[basejester]

And he's not a pitcher until he engages the rubber, right?

I mean, we have to address why it's not OK to do those preparatory steps off the rubber.

[Rich Ives]

From 8.01( b )...

Preparatory to coming to a set position, the pitcher shall have one hand on his side;

from this position he shall go to his set position as defined in Rule 8.01( b ) without

interruption and in one continuous motion.

If he's bringing his hands together as he steps on, he does not have "...one hand on his side...".

It's a "don't do that".

JM

If he starts with his hand at his side and then in a continuous motion engages and coms set, what has he violated?

[mstaylor]

I can tell you Rich, I am not going to allow him to step on and come set simultaneously. I am not saying it is a balk but he is not following 8.01b.

[Rich Ives]

What isn't he following? There os NO requirement that he engage first.

[ump570]

I don't know how he could get the sign from the catcher that quickly if he's getting signs from the rubber. Perhaps the coach is sending in the signs. This is also illegal? I've never encountered anything like what you describe.

[Jocko]

Perhaps the coach is sending in the signs. This is also illegal?

absolutely not

[mstaylor]

No, getting signs from the coach isn't illegal. I believe the rule requires you to be on the rubber before you set. It doesn't exactly say that but I assure you the world does it that way. Young pitchers just learning do not. The next time you find a MiLB or MLB pitcher doing this, let me know.

[basejester]

Try this on for size.

--

Preparatory to coming to a set position, the pitcher shall have one hand on his side;

from this position he shall go to his set position as defined in Rule 8.01( b ) without

interruption and in one continuous motion.

--

Until he engages the rubber, he's an infielder and cannot fulfill the obligation for the pitcher to have one hand on his side.

[Jocko]

Try this on for size.

--

Preparatory to coming to a set position, the pitcher shall have one hand on his side;

from this position he shall go to his set position as defined in Rule 8.01( b ) without

interruption and in one continuous motion.

--

Until he engages the rubber, he's an infielder and cannot fulfill the obligation for the pitcher to have one hand on his side.

Pitching regs don't start until he engages. Once engaged, he must stretch, set, and pause before delivery. Excellent point.