What's the call ?

[mazzamouth]

I asked 2 MLB umpires this question today and they both said that you give R2 Third BR 2nd

MLBUM

6.23 (3) Runner is on second base when the batter-runner is obstructed after reaching first base. The

umpire intends to award the batter-runner second base on the obstruction. What happens to the

runner on second?

Ruling: Runner on second is awarded third base.

This is exactly what they said. Plus its not our job to care about poor baserunners. You see the obstuction you award the BR 2nd and forces R2 to third. Period no other choices.

you can't award bases just cause there was OBS...you have to look and wonder..

[jnazz]

I asked 2 MLB umpires this question today and they both said that you give R2 Third BR 2nd

I would agree with you in regards to the pro game.

MLBUM

6.23 (3) Runner is on second base when the batter-runner is obstructed after reaching first base. The

umpire intends to award the batter-runner second base on the obstruction. What happens to the

runner on second?

Ruling: Runner on second is awarded third base.

However: Baseball Canada wants it ruled the other way, with BR being called out. The OP comes from Canada.

Therefore, on this sit, BCan wants you to follow the JR interpretation?

[tiger49]

Official Rules: Foreword

We recognize that many amateur and non-professional organizations play their games under professional rules and we are happy to make our rules available as widely as possible. It is well to remember that specifications as to fields, equipment, etc., may be modified to meet the needs of each group.

This is one of those differences.

The circumstances that would bring this situation into play in an amateur game vs. a pro game may be totally different. IIRC a clinic I was at we discussed the differences between the two rulings, and the pro game feels the call of obstruction could potentially create enough confusion that R2 completely stops and therefore is unable to advance. Similar to the calling of a balk that causes everyone to stop, even though F1 could still continue with the pitch.

BCan feels that R2 not advancing is more out of his own stupidity than the actions surrounding the obstruction.

[Guest]

Official Rules: Foreword

We recognize that many amateur and non-professional organizations play their games under professional rules and we are happy to make our rules available as widely as possible. It is well to remember that specifications as to fields, equipment, etc., may be modified to meet the needs of each group.

This is one of those differences.

The circumstances that would bring this situation into play in an amateur game vs. a pro game may be totally different. IIRC a clinic I was at we discussed the differences between the two rulings, and the pro game feels the call of obstruction could potentially create enough confusion that R2 completely stops and therefore is unable to advance. Similar to the calling of a balk that causes everyone to stop, even though F1 could still continue with the pitch.

BCan feels that R2 not advancing is more out of his own stupidity than the actions surrounding the obstruction.

Let me play devil's advocate here (and hijack this further):

Why, if this is a B-Can interp, on the OBA 09 3 exam is the correct answer consistent with the B-Can ruling?

The first page of the OBA rules says all play in Ontario uses the Official Rules of Baseball except where ammended as follows (or something to that effect)

[Mr Umpire]

MLBUM

6.23 (3) Runner is on second base when the batter-runner is obstructed after reaching first base. The

umpire intends to award the batter-runner second base on the obstruction. What happens to the

runner on second?

Ruling: Runner on second is awarded third base.

In the example given, it is assumed that the BR had not yet attained 2nd since the umpire was going to award him the base. Once BR is on 2nd, there is no award to be given.

The MLBUM also says this:

NOTE (2): Runner Obstructed While No Play Being Made On Him. In determining what base a runner will be awarded under this second section of the obstruction rule, it is permissible for the umpire to consider the position and speed of the runner, ball and fielder at the moment the obstruction occurs. However, the ultimate decision in placing the runners shall not be made until all play has ceased and shall be based on the principle that the obstructed runner will be entitled to the base he would have reached had no obstruction occurred.

NOTE (3): If a runner is obstructed while no play is being made on him, the umpire making the call should have the benefit of input of his partners in determining what bases, if any, shall be awarded to the obstructed runner. In other words, the crew may confer in order to determine what reasonably might have happened had the obstruction not occurred.

The key part in my ruling is where it says "what reasonably might have happened had the obstruction not occured." As in the original OP, if the obstruction had not occured, BR would be out, therefore BR is out even though OBS occurred.

Since the BR reached 2nd, there is no award or protection invoked. The obstruction is, for practical purposes, disregarded since it had no bearing on the play.

greyhawk posed a valid question and I disagree with semper on that one. I would award BR 2nd thereby forcing R2 to third. These are two totally different situations. One is where BR has "safely" reached the base, although not legally entitled to it, and in the second example, the BR was not able to "safely" reach 2nd due to the OBS.

I agree with those saying BR out. If he made it to the protected base after OBS occurred, then there is no more protection given. He cannot be awarded bases if he made it to the base he was protected to already. OBS is only designed to nullify what would have happened if the OBS didn't occur. What happened cannot be nullified since what would have happened DID happen.

BR out. R2, 1 out.

[Rich Ives]

you can't award bases just cause there was OBS

Yes you can. Probably shouldn't, but you can.

[Umpire in Chief]

Obstruction is particularly difficult to discuss online because there are so many variables and a lot of judgement.

I liked Rich's phrase "Obstruction is a God rule" because the umpire has a ton of discression on how or if to impose the penalty.

Situation:

BR hits one to the opposite field which rattles in the corner. F3 obstructs the BR after rounding first, by standing in his path. Lets go a step further and even say there is no contact, but the BR had to make a noticible adjustment to avoid the contact. The BR, flys through second rounds third and is called out on a banger at the plate.

The BU has the ability to remove the out and have the run score if in his judgement the obstruction possibly prevented the runner from scoring.

It's a lot of authority and if you judge to either score the run or not your going to have a visit.

[grayhawk]

Obstruction is particularly difficult to discuss online because there are so many variables and a lot of judgement.

I liked Rich's phrase "Obstruction is a God rule" because the umpire has a ton of discression on how or if to impose the penalty.

Situation:

BR hits one to the opposite field which rattles in the corner. F3 obstructs the BR after rounding first, by standing in his path. Lets go a step further and even say there is no contact, but the BR had to make a noticible adjustment to avoid the contact. The BR, flys through second rounds third and is called out on a banger at the plate.

The BU has the ability to remove the out and have the run score if in his judgement the obstruction possibly prevented the runner from scoring.

It's a lot of authority and if you judge to either score the run or not your going to have a visit.

Pretty easy decision to score the run on a banger at the plate after you call obstruction. It's more difficult if he gets thrown out by, say, 8-10 feet. Of course, If there is any question in my mind, I'm going to err on the side of scoring the run since the defense screwed up. Only if I'm sure he wouldn't have scored without the obstruction am I going to allow the out to stand.

[Rich Ives]

What if, instead of BR arriving at 2nd base safely (with R2 still there), BR is tagged out on a close play sliding into 2nd after he was obstructed by F3? Are you awarding him 2nd base then (even with R2 still standing on 2nd)?

I am not awarding the BR anything as long as R2 is on 2B.

The BR made a bone head base running error. End of story.

R2 has possession of 2B and is not forced to move.

BR is out on any play at 2B since R2 is not forced to leave 2B.

WHO made the boneheaded baserunning error?

I know who I'm having a discussion with after they get to the dugout.