How would you respond?

[jpperez14]

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=24794805&c_id=mlb

Taking how everyone's reaction I would not ask the HP umpire if he happen to see him pull his foot or not. if they would of been respectful and just asked to get some help, I would.

Opinions?

[moblue]

Once you have called the runner off the bag, stick to your call. You saw him off the bag or else you wouldn't have called it. I am not saying that in this instance it was the correct call (he did look straighlined), but I disagree with asking your partner for help just because one team asks you to.

[mstaylor]

If he had said he was on, that you can fix, saying he was off, you have to eat it.

[BRUMP]

If he had said he was on, that you can fix, saying he was off, you have to eat.

I agree you can't unring the bell.

[Jocko]

If he had said he was on, that you can fix, saying he was off, you have to eat it.

(On a check swing)

HP - "Yes he did!" [insert k mech]

B1 - "can I appeal that?"

HP (pointing to BU) - "Did he go?"

BU - "No" [insert safe mech]

Some calls you just can't get help on

[basejester]

(On a check swing)

HP - "Yes he did!" [insert k mech]

B1 - "can I appeal that?"

HP (pointing to BU) - "Did he go?"

BU - "No" [insert safe mech]

Some calls you just can't get help on

The prohibition against turning strikes into balls is in the rules -- comment of 9.02 ( c ).

Saying that a safe for a pulled foot can't be reversed (I think) implies that the umpire should call an out if he doesn't see where the fielder's foot is. I don't think this is in the rules. (I.e., you have to see the fielder's foot off the bag to call safe, but you can assume it is on the bag until proven otherwise.)

Interesting.

[Jocko]

I was instructed to go to HP immediately and on my own if I am not 100% on a pulled foot, swipe tag, etc.

Also covered in PBUCUM.

[mstaylor]

(On a check swing)

HP - "Yes he did!" [insert k mech]

B1 - "can I appeal that?"

HP (pointing to BU) - "Did he go?"

BU - "No" [insert safe mech]

Some calls you just can't get help on

The prohibition against turning strikes into balls is in the rules -- comment of 9.02 ( c ).

Saying that a safe for a pulled foot can't be reversed (I think) implies that the umpire should call an out if he doesn't see where the fielder's foot is. I don't think this is in the rules. (I.e., you have to see the fielder's foot off the bag to call safe, but you can assume it is on the bag until proven otherwise.)

Interesting.

If the foot looks like it is on and you have no daylight then it is on, call the out. If you have douobts but still can't see daylight ask the PU, provided he isn't supposed to be watching something else.

The big thing for us to remember is when the play makes the fielder to stretch straight at you, jab one way or the other to get a look and asking becomes superfluous.

[Jocko]

Very true, Mike.

Most plays that are missed by the umpire are caused by the umpire not reading those cues early enough and making the proper adjustments - Jim Evans

[Haid D' Salaami]

If he had said he was on, that you can fix, saying he was off, you have to eat it.

Thats not true, you could fix it...

[Haid D' Salaami]

I was instructed to go to HP immediately and on my own if I am not 100% on a pulled foot, swipe tag, etc.

Also covered in PBUCUM.

No you shouldn't call what you got.. if they ask and your not 100% sure you can get help, this is not taught at PBUC

[Jocko]

I was instructed to go to HP immediately and on my own if I am not 100% on a pulled foot, swipe tag, etc.

Also covered in PBUCUM.

No you shouldn't call what you got.. if they ask and your not 100% sure you can get help, this is not taught at PBUC

I'll give the reference when I get home. I may be remembering incorrectly, but pretty sure what I said is accurate. Not doubting you, but I'll look it up. You may be 100% correct.

[Jocko]

Clarification : working strictly from memory, I got 2 situations intermingled. On a D3K Check Swing, PU should ask for help immediately without waiting for an appeal request from the defense. (PBUCUM 9.8)

:notworthy:

Salami, you have my humble apology

[UmpTTS43]

This is a great example of why working strictly by the 90 degree philosophy can be flawed. The 90 philosophy is predicated that F3 will be working the bag such that the 90 will give the angle for the pulled foot. On a throw that will be caught by F3 at/near the bag, our optimum angle should be determined by how F3 is working the bag. We can work toward the 90 then adjust.

[Richvee]

On a related note. Here PU overturns 1U without even being asked.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=24485885&c_id=mlb

[noumpere]

We cant tell that he wasnt asked maybe the coach said something the first base umpire looked at PU questioningly etc.

And even if he didnt ask I wouldnt take it as some new approved mechanic.

[Richvee]

I wouldn't think it's a new approved mechanic either, but I'd love to know what is the approved method to handle pulled foot/swipe tag. I'm more concerned with the call in a two man system rather than pro.

1.If BU isn't 100% sure, should he make a call and then ask PU for help. (That's what I thought is correct) or point right away to PU and say something like "did he hold the bag? or "Did he tag him?".

2. If BU makes a call and PU sees it differently, should PU just yell it out (No! SAFE! He's off the bag!"). I've never been taught this.

The way I thought this should be handled is, BU makes the call. If he's not 100% sure, he can call time and discuss it with his partner..Not shout it across the field. And if PU sees something different than the original call, and BU hasn't yet asked for any help, PU should signal somehow indicating to his partner he has some info he might want to hear.

I like to go over this in a pregame. If I'm PU, I'll tell my partner if he sees me taking a step or two towards 1B after the play and not turning and hustling back to the plate, I've got some info for him.

[noumpere]

I wouldn't think it's a new approved mechanic either, but I'd love to know what is the approved method to handle pulled foot/swipe tag. I'm more concerned with the call in a two man system rather than pro.

1.If BU isn't 100% sure, should he make a call and then ask PU for help. (That's what I thought is correct) or point right away to PU and say something like "did he hold the bag? or "Did he tag him?".

2. If BU makes a call and PU sees it differently, should PU just yell it out (No! SAFE! He's off the bag!"). I've never been taught this.

The way I thought this should be handled is, BU makes the call. If he's not 100% sure, he can call time and discuss it with his partner..Not shout it across the field. And if PU sees something different than the original call, and BU hasn't yet asked for any help, PU should signal somehow indicating to his partner he has some info he might want to hear.

I like to go over this in a pregame. If I'm PU, I'll tell my partner if he sees me taking a step or two towards 1B after the play and not turning and hustling back to the plate, I've got some info for him.

There are two approved mechanics e.g make a call and then ask or ask and then make the call. Which one you use depends on who you learned from and who got burned by the other mechanic etc.

Your option 2 above should never be used to my way of thinking.

I agree with your signal or lack theirof. Too many times people take off the hat or pat the chest or something and everyone can pick up on that. If your a competent umpire and yor partner is a competent umpire then the two of you should be able to tell with just a look what is going on.

[Richvee]

If your a competent umpire and yor partner is a competent umpire then the two of you should be able to tell with just a look what is going on.

Agree. It helps when it's a partner you know. There's 3 or 4 guys in our group I've been working with a lot and we work great together. Things like this are just natural and we've gotten nice feedback from coaches, our assignor, etc. Then there's some others I've worked with more than a hand full of times that I just feel "clumsy" working with. I hate to sound uppity or snobbish but I'm starting to think that these guys just aren't good umpires. They've been at it longer than me, but it sure doesn't show. Poor signaling, poor mechanics, inevitably leads to more controversies :shrug: