2 ejections, 1 protest, and a partridge in a greyhound bus

[renegadewolf]

This might come off long winded, but here is what happens, and yes my friends, this IS a clusterF*#K....lol and a combination of what I saw as the base umpire and what my partner told me happened between 3rd and home and other information from the tourney director

This morning I am calling a semifinal 14U Provincial championship game, relevant info is as follows: R1, R2, R3, 1 out.

BR hits a short hopper to F6, who in turn underhand tosses the ball towrds F4 who is running toward 2B. The ball hits F4s chest and he bobbles the ball as he crosses over 2B, He gains control after having over run 2B fumbling and as he jumps and twists to throw to first i signal a safe call while turning to follow the ball goiong to first with just enough time to get set and call the out on a banger at first and by this time R3 is approaching the plate and stops because he believes there was a double play We have loud cheers, F3 rolls the ball towards the mound and all the fielders start to leave the field. It took me a moment to realize what was happening at which point I rather loudly and emphaticly made several safe mechanics while loudly saying "the runner at 2 was safe". During this time R2 has advanced to 3b and has rounded towards home and R3 having heard my call having just barely walked a few feet past the plate (without touching it) turns around and touches the plate. R2 had gotten "caught up" in the defenders leaving the field and returned to 3rd and R1 seeing that I had called him safe hadn't budged an inch off the bag at 2.

As you can imagine, pretty much everyone (especially the fans who matter the least yet make the most noise) has an opinion on what should be happening here, and since we have managers coming off the bench (oddly no coaches or players) to start arguing, we pretty much have no choice but to be calling time. I ask the managers to give us a minute to get things figured out. we go up the third baseline away from everyone near the mound and figure out what we have. For my part I have BR out, R1 at 2 since R2 passed 3rd, i dropped him as by that time he was in my mind the PU responsibility (the ball is on the ground at the pitchers plate at this point and I am watching watching between R2 to see if he goes anywhere and if anyone is picking up the ball) PU informs me about the touch at home, we score the run, and that R2 had retreated to 3B, no obstruction. So there we have it, Runners on 2 and 3, 2 outs and a run scored and we place the runners and inform the coaches. HM starts to ask why I called safe at 2nd and I explained the fielder did not have control of the ball while on the base, and he then argues that I didn't make a call at 2nd (in fairness there was no verbalization but the mechanic was there) and the VM is arguing with my partner that R2 was obstructed and aught to have been awarded home After several minutes of arguement from coaches and successfully getting things calmed down a bit. DM had left the field before the OM had and has now apparently gone to the TD and told him he wanted to protest the game, no one bothered to tell myself or my partner. Finally my partners gives both benches a warning informing them that the discussion is over and that anyone continuing the conversation will be ejected (my words not his) and mysteriously the benches go quiet.

Game finally contiunues. Batter his a grounder to F4 who makes a neat throw to first and I signal the out. Of course at this point I hear "Are you sure he wasn't off the bag there blue?" from the HM. Easy toss, but we can't have anything go on from this point without theatrics so he comes out acting all surprised he has been tossed wanting to know why and whatnot, finally my partner gets him off the field and Visiting team takes the field. I am at this point grabbing a bottle of water wedged in the backstop fence for us from the TD and VM comes walking over towards my partner and me. He says "I just have a question about something" and begins to ask about obstruction on the big mess from earlier. I just looked at hiom and said "you were warned coach, we were not discussing this anymore obstruction is a judgement call, you are gone" (No BOOM! this time... oh well). My partner then says, "oh, he was coming to talk to me, it's ok he's not ejected". I said "excuse me? I have equil authority to make an ejection, and you have no right to overturn an ejection" He replies with a "no, he's not ejected he can stay". At this point I have a few choices, I walk off the field (and likely end up getting myself blacklisted in the process for abandoning a provicial semifinal right or wrong) or I bench both teams and turn this disagreement into a very public fight between the umpires for all to see with likely simmilar results to above. I can continually pester the coach every time between plays that he has been ejected and needs to leave or do nothing. I ended up choosing a mix of the last 2 pestering him at each half inning (he was tossed at the start of 6) that he had been ejected and needs to leave, to no avail. In the end HT wins, the protest is rejected (it was a judgement call, and umpires were not informed of protest) and 2 ejection reports were filed with Ontario Baseball included in the report was my partner over turning the ejection.

[Pete Peterson Sr]

I can only hope that your association allows you to scratch potential partners, because that would be one I'd never enter a field with again.

[mstaylor]

Interesting story, was your partner somebody you met at the tournament or somebody you already knew? I would have insisted on the ejection, I don't care if it pissed the PU off or not. If not your credibility is shot.

As to the OP, call the safe at second, turn for the play at first, then return to show and call the safe again. So basically you call and show safe initially, call the out at first, then bounce back and say,"He is safe at second!" while showing the bobble mechanic. Keep an eye free to make sure nothing else is going on with other runners. Was it just two man?

[renegadewolf]

I was in from out of town asked by the assigner in the area. I've never worked with him before, nor will I again, though the chances of that happening are slim as he is from that town which is about an hour away. It was also a 2 umpire game

[Jocko]

I can only hope that your association allows you to scratch potential partners, because that would be one I'd never enter a field with again.

sound like someone from your HS Assoc? Lol.

[Jocko]

We had the EXACT situation at a tournament.

IMO, you have a couple of choices

1. Call your partner away from anyone's earshot, read him the riot act, and INSIST on the EJ.

2. Involve the TD and insist on the EJ

3. EJ yourself from the game and deal with the aftermath

Someone is leaving, the coach or me. No f**king way are we continuing the game with both of us still on the field.

After the game was over, that dude and I would have a come-to-Jesus meeting, and if he continued his assholishness, he would finish the day solo. I would definitely NEVER call with him again. NEV. ER. And if he got lippy with me, it might come to fisticuffs.

[Steven Tyler]

We had the EXACT situation at a tournament.

IMO, you have a couple of choices

1. Call your partner away from anyone's earshot, read him the riot act, and INSIST on the EJ.

2. Involve the TD and insist on the EJ

3. EJ yourself from the game and deal with the aftermath

Someone is leaving, the coach or me. No f**king way are we continuing the game with both of us still on the field.

After the game was over, that dude and I would have a come-to-Jesus meeting, and if he continued his assholishness, he would finish the day solo. I would definitely NEVER call with him again. NEV. ER. And if he got lippy with me, it might come to fisticuffs.

Some of the worse advice I've ever read. Fisticuffs? Really?

[mstaylor]

I would absolutely insist that he is gone. I agree that pulling him aside and explaining forcefully that he has been ejected and that means he leaves. Then in the parking lot he gets an absolute reaming of biblical proportions.

[renegadewolf]

In my mind, a public display of displeasure with your partner is never acceptable on the field especially smacking him in the head a la larry curly and moe..... I told him exactly how pissed i was and that the ejection report was still going in and that the Ontario Baseball Association (the overseeing body) was going to be informed that he had allowed a coach that I had ejected to remain. I did all of that with a calm face, and a calm voice on the field and was damn sure he understood what I was saying. I left it alone for the rest of the game with him and followed through.

[Guest]

1) Mechanics:

Emphatic safe verbal and mechanic originally, turn to 1B, make the call at 1B, return to 2B with another and more emphatic "safe" and now also a "now control" or "bobbled the ball" mechanic.

2) If you needed the water, under the circumstances someone should have brought it out to you. You put yourself in a bad situation. Under no circumstances should you have been anywhere near your partner that half inning, even if it didn't end with you snapping the sarcastic SOB. So this leads to #3.

3) When you have a cluster you-know-what, you have to endure an extended period of questioning from coaches and managers. In this case, both teams had very legitimate arguments to make about everything. You have to give both of them equal oppourtunity to question and have explained the call at 2B and the non-obstruction call at 3B, including eating a bit of crap from the DM for improper mechanics. Last summer during our situation in St Thomas, we had the game stopped a good 10 minutes, first to allow the defense to question the overturned out call at 1B, then to allow the offense to question why we placed R2 at 3B instead of scoring him; then we had to let F1 get ready again and warm up...etc etc.

It sounds like you both rushed to resume the game and perhaps left one side unsatisfied with the answer they got. Given this, the death sentence your partner passed was unfortunate and you snapping the coach when he came to you between innings was you just trying to back your partner, but ultimately premature. He didn't make a scene of it and it is 14U - I'm surprised the offense correctly argued for obstruction instead of interference. Tell the guy, listen, we noted the obstruction but don't think it prevented your runner from advancing to the plate. It is a judgement call and not automatic. There's nothing left to discuss about it. THEN snap him if he continues to argue and holds up the game.

To me, this is like dumping a guy who comes out of the dugout to argue a check swing in amateur baseball. Would you snap the guy the second he comes off the bench or would you try to stop him in his tracks and tell him "you can't come out to argue this," then run him if he ignores you. Because here (Ontario), that's what I'm doing in every game I work except one particular league where the individuals involved should know better. Sometimes, they honestly just don't know. This guy probably just wanted a better understanding of what the heck just happened and tried to do it in a manner that would not offend anyone. But, your partner did say 'no more discussion' and you were just trying to have his back so "meh."

Now, as for what PU did after, that was bush league. Let me know in an appropriate manner who this was.

[Pete Peterson Sr]

I can only hope that your association allows you to scratch potential partners, because that would be one I'd never enter a field with again.

sound like someone from your HS Assoc? Lol.

The great thing about that, Fish, is that I'm the go-to guy for partner scratches. I don't have to work with anyone I don't wish to work with. But that person is the only one in my group with whom I will not work. My motto: Screw me once....sucks to be you.

[Jocko]

I can only hope that your association allows you to scratch potential partners, because that would be one I'd never enter a field with again.

sound like someone from your HS Assoc? Lol.

The great thing about that, Fish, is that I'm the go-to guy for partner scratches. I don't have to work with anyone I don't wish to work with. But that person is the only one in my group with whom I will not work. My motto: Screw me once....sucks to be you.

when I mentioned fisticuffs, I had your guy in mind specifically. I told our (mine and your) tournament assignor I refuse to work with him. Kind of gave him the I go or he goes ultimatum. Haven't seen him since he pulled that stunt. And it's a shame he's such a db, because I watched him on the field. He's pretty decent except for the "look at me. I'm in charge" mentality.

[JaxRolo]

I think the VM manager ejection was to quick. You should have said we are not talking about it and suggested he kept walking.

[Jocko]

In my mind, a public display of displeasure with your partner is never acceptable on the field especially smacking him in the head a la larry curly and moe..... I told him exactly how pissed i was and that the ejection report was still going in and that the Ontario Baseball Association (the overseeing body) was going to be informed that he had allowed a coach that I had ejected to remain. I did all of that with a calm face, and a calm voice on the field and was damn sure he understood what I was saying. I left it alone for the rest of the game with him and followed through.

I don't recommend more than a conference. Then, if he still refuses to acknowledge the EJ, I'm outta there. I'd file the EJ report and include the fact that HE CHOSE to finish solo. I will not work with anyone who undermines my calls or puts me in a position where my authority is in question. HP is technically "crew chief." All that means is he runs the plate meeting and handles lineups.

[Jocko]

We had the EXACT situation at a tournament.

IMO, you have a couple of choices

1. Call your partner away from anyone's earshot, read him the riot act, and INSIST on the EJ.

2. Involve the TD and insist on the EJ

3. EJ yourself from the game and deal with the aftermath

Someone is leaving, the coach or me. No f**king way are we continuing the game with both of us still on the field.

After the game was over, that dude and I would have a come-to-Jesus meeting, and if he continued his assholishness, he would finish the day solo. I would definitely NEVER call with him again. NEV. ER. And if he got lippy with me, it might come to fisticuffs.

Some of the worse advice I've ever read. Fisticuffs? Really?

tongue in cheek. Come on. I'm not fighting over a baseball game. I did have a particular person in mind when I said that, and he definitely needs an attitude adjustment, but not over a game.

[Pete Peterson Sr]

I can only hope that your association allows you to scratch potential partners, because that would be one I'd never enter a field with again.

sound like someone from your HS Assoc? Lol.

The great thing about that, Fish, is that I'm the go-to guy for partner scratches. I don't have to work with anyone I don't wish to work with. But that person is the only one in my group with whom I will not work. My motto: Screw me once....sucks to be you.

when I mentioned fisticuffs, I had your guy in mind specifically. I told our (mine and your) tournament assignor I refuse to work with him. Kind of gave him the I go or he goes ultimatum. Haven't seen him since he pulled that stunt. And it's a shame he's such a db, because I watched him on the field. He's pretty decent except for the "look at me. I'm in charge" mentality.

You know, I really didn't think about the fact, when I read the OP, that that jackass pulled the same stunt as mentioned in the OP.

[mjr_2013]

After the second "no, he is staying." I would have given my PU an "are you f***ing serious?" look and told the manager to go to his dugout "while we sort this out."

Walk with your partner down the 1st or 3rd BL (it's between innings), and tell him that you will not work with a dictator. We have equal authority, whether it is me in that gear or you. I have ejected him, therefore he is ejected. If you disagree with my ejection, we can discuss it in private following the game. But for now, he is gone."

If he is still an ass, involve the (hopefully competent) TD in a 3 way conversation on the field. Don't let that game restart until he has left.

[Jocko]

This applies to any umpire, regardless of crew size or UIC status:

10-1-6 "............his right to remove players or to remove non players for obbjecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct is absolute."

10-3-1 "he shal havve concurrent jurisdiction with the umpire-in-chief...........in ejecting any coach or player for flagrant, unsportsmanlike conduct or infraction as prescribed by the rules."

That's out of NFHS 2012 Baseball Rules.

I'm sure OBR is worded along those same lines.

Even after getting together to discuss it, HP is bound by rule to stick with his partner, even if he disagrees. He MUST back the EJ.

Your ex-partner is a douche of epic proportions, and needs a come to jesus meeting.

Next time he made a call you disagreed with, you had just as much right to overturn the safe/out as he did the EJ.

[mjr_2013]

This applies to any umpire, regardless of crew size or UIC status:

10-1-6 "............his right to remove players or to remove non players for obbjecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct is absolute."

10-3-1 "he shal havve concurrent jurisdiction with the umpire-in-chief...........in ejecting any coach or player for flagrant, unsportsmanlike conduct or infraction as prescribed by the rules."

That's out of NFHS 2012 Baseball Rules.

I'm sure OBR is worded along those same lines.

Even after getting together to discuss it, HP is bound by rule to stick with his partner, even if he disagrees. He MUST back the EJ.

Your ex-partner is a douche of epic proportions, and needs a come to jesus meeting.

Next time he made a call you disagreed with, you had just as much right to overturn the safe/out as he did the EJ.

Say the acting HM hears the convo between the umpire and the VM. Could he theoretically do the BU a favor and protest the game himself according to 10-1-6 and 10-3-1?

[cyclonehokiece]

This applies to any umpire, regardless of crew size or UIC status:

10-1-6 "............his right to remove players or to remove non players for obbjecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct is absolute."

10-3-1 "he shal havve concurrent jurisdiction with the umpire-in-chief...........in ejecting any coach or player for flagrant, unsportsmanlike conduct or infraction as prescribed by the rules."

That's out of NFHS 2012 Baseball Rules.

I'm sure OBR is worded along those same lines.

Even after getting together to discuss it, HP is bound by rule to stick with his partner, even if he disagrees. He MUST back the EJ.

Your ex-partner is a douche of epic proportions, and needs a come to jesus meeting.

Next time he made a call you disagreed with, you had just as much right to overturn the safe/out as he did the EJ.

Say the acting HM hears the convo between the umpire and the VM. Could he theoretically do the BU a favor and protest the game himself according to 10-1-6 and 10-3-1?

I could imagine he could, but I doubt many coaches would know that one (except Rich).

[renegadewolf]

This applies to any umpire, regardless of crew size or UIC status:

10-1-6 "............his right to remove players or to remove non players for obbjecting to decisions or for unsportsmanlike conduct is absolute."

10-3-1 "he shal havve concurrent jurisdiction with the umpire-in-chief...........in ejecting any coach or player for flagrant, unsportsmanlike conduct or infraction as prescribed by the rules."

That's out of NFHS 2012 Baseball Rules.

I'm sure OBR is worded along those same lines.

Even after getting together to discuss it, HP is bound by rule to stick with his partner, even if he disagrees. He MUST back the EJ.

Your ex-partner is a douche of epic proportions, and needs a come to jesus meeting.

Next time he made a call you disagreed with, you had just as much right to overturn the safe/out as he did the EJ.

Say the acting HM hears the convo between the umpire and the VM. Could he theoretically do the BU a favor and protest the game himself according to 10-1-6 and 10-3-1?

I could imagine he could, but I doubt many coaches would know that one (except Rich).

ye gods.... thats all i am gonna say....lol

[Don]

If I ejected anyone, and my partner said no, we would soon be engaged in a very heated discussion out of ear shot of the coaches. Full of SH*# would certainly be involved in the discussion. If we could not agree and I was not UIC I would likely finish the game (for the kids) and make sure I never work with him again.