Difficult Situation

[collint1993]

Worked tourney today for 14u. Took 4 games and the issue came up in extra innings in a semi-final. It is the bottom of the 9th, and there are two outs and runners on 2nd and 3rd with an 0-2 count. Under NFHS rules. Pitcher licks hand without wiping off. BU calls a balk to end game. I run out to tell him that is incorrect, but he is UIC and game ends. I know it is wrong under 6-2-1e. I knew it was wrong, but partner refused to listen. Coach unfortunately didn't know protest rule and base ump left befote he could even register one. I talked to tourney director. I'm kind of just wondering what actions you would have taken after the call and whether you'd report the umpire to the association that assigns for us. Thanks.

[BT_Blue]

Wait... going to the mouth and directly to the ball is a illegal act by F1. In FED that is a balk with runners on.

As for what I would do? Not a damn thing! If DC doesn't complain I say get out of dodge. Talk to your partner during your post game but don't rush out there and embarrass your partner like that.

[Jocko]

Hand to mouth without wiping is illegal w/o runners. Any illegal act WITH runners is a balk. Sounds like you need to learn to tend your own garden before you pickk weeds in mine. As far as snitching on him.... That's retarded. Ask your assignor what HE thinks you should do in this situation and see what he says. Today's game fees says he agrees with me.

[Jocko]

Wait... going to the mouth and directly to the ball is a illegal act by F1. In FED that is a balk with runners on.

As for what I would do? Not a damn thing! If DC doesn't complain I say get out of dodge. Talk to your partner during your post game but don't rush out there and embarrass your partner like that.

He'll end up embarassing himselffor lack of "nollidge." If my partner came to me without being asked I'd let him have it post game. ESPECIALLY if he's dead wrong. Then he won't work with me again.

[LMSANS]

I bring to your attention 6-2-1 (NFHS). Please notice the red text.

ART. 1 . . . Illegal acts include:

a. applying a foreign substance to the ball;

b. spitting on the ball or glove;

c. rubbing the ball on the glove, clothing or person if the act defaces the ball;

d. discoloring the ball with dirt;

e

. bringing the pitching hand in contact with the mouth without distinctly ­wiping off the pitching hand before it touches the ball;

f. wearing any items on the hands, wrists or arms that may be distracting to the batter;

g. wearing or placing tape, bandages or other foreign material (other than rosin) on the fingers or palm of his pitching hand that could come in ­contact with the ball;

h. wearing a glove/mitt that includes the colors white or gray;

i. wearing exposed undershirt sleeves that are white or gray.

NOTE: Under umpire supervision, the pitcher may dry his hands by using a finely meshed cloth bag of powdered rosin. He may rub the ball with his bare hands to remove any extraneous coating.

PENALTY: For defacing the ball (a-d), the ball is dead immediately. The umpire may eject the pitcher. If such defaced ball is pitched and then detected, it is an illegal pitch. For infraction (e), a ball shall be awarded each time a pitcher violates this rule and subsequently engages the pitching plate. For infraction (f-i), the infraction must be corrected before the next pitch. In (f), the umpire has sole authority to judge whether or not an item is distracting and shall have that item removed.

[RichMSN]

I bring to your attention 6-2-1 (NFHS). Please notice the red text.

ART. 1 . . . Illegal acts include:

a. applying a foreign substance to the ball;

b. spitting on the ball or glove;

c. rubbing the ball on the glove, clothing or person if the act defaces the ball;

d. discoloring the ball with dirt;

e

. bringing the pitching hand in contact with the mouth without distinctly ­wiping off the pitching hand before it touches the ball;

f. wearing any items on the hands, wrists or arms that may be distracting to the batter;

g. wearing or placing tape, bandages or other foreign material (other than rosin) on the fingers or palm of his pitching hand that could come in ­contact with the ball;

h. wearing a glove/mitt that includes the colors white or gray;

i. wearing exposed undershirt sleeves that are white or gray.

NOTE: Under umpire supervision, the pitcher may dry his hands by using a finely meshed cloth bag of powdered rosin. He may rub the ball with his bare hands to remove any extraneous coating.

PENALTY: For defacing the ball (a-d), the ball is dead immediately. The umpire may eject the pitcher. If such defaced ball is pitched and then detected, it is an illegal pitch. For infraction (e), a ball shall be awarded each time a pitcher violates this rule and subsequently engages the pitching plate. For infraction (f-i), the infraction must be corrected before the next pitch. In (f), the umpire has sole authority to judge whether or not an item is distracting and shall have that item removed.

Exactly. It's a ball to go to the mouth and then the ball and then engage the pitching plate. It's only a balk if he goes to his mouth while engaged -- it's considered a start/stop balk then.

I'm all about prevention -- if I see a pitcher go had, mouth, ball, I call time and replace the baseball. I've never had a pitcher do it twice.

[collint1993]

Well trout looks like you owe me game fees. It is a ball...

[collint1993]

And my point was he had ignored it all game until the very last play which I thought was bush league.

[Jimurray]

Hand to mouth without wiping is illegal w/o runners. Any illegal act WITH runners is a balk. Sounds like you need to learn to tend your own garden before you pickk weeds in mine. As far as snitching on him.... That's retarded. Ask your assignor what HE thinks you should do in this situation and see what he says. Today's game fees says he agrees with me.

Trout, what did you not understand about this thread that you participated in:

http://umpire-empire.com/index.php/topic/30489-hand-to-mouth/

[Texarkana]

I took it from your post that he was engaged when it happened. Is that correct?

Why would you throw your partner under a bus by going to the tourny director? I learned a long time ago I only have one freind on the field and it is my partner.

[Jocko]

From the OP, it seems F1 was on the rubber. Shame on me for not asking for more details. Was he on the rubber?

[Mr Umpire]

First, if an umpire misapplies a rule, why should he be reported? We all miss a rule at some point for whatever reason. I'd hate to work with a know-it-all who never messes something up. Seems a little harsh for a screw up. If indeed, it was one.

Second, if the umpire was there long enough to explain the balk call, he was there long enough for a coach to protest. I don't get how "I protest" takes longer than 3 seconds to say after getting an explanation.

Third, how did you know he was overlooking it all game? Maybe he didn't see it the other times. Also, if you saw it, why were you overlooking it?

I like Rich's advice to call Time and ask for the ball to help prevent this kind of situation from even being an issue. But, if he was on the rubber when he did it, then this advice won't work. A balk should have already been called for the "Start/stop" motion of the set position unless he did it as he was addressing the rubber.

It does seem like a little more info is needed to make a definitive ruling on the OP. But, the actions which followed were unnecessary. Simply talk to your partner after you are off the field unless a protest is filed. And, if he refuses to listen, talk to your assignor to get him to explain it to this umpire what the rule is. Do not confront him on the field until after a protest is filed to make sure the ruling is correct. But, especially don't talk to the tournament director, now you look like the one who doesn't know what he is doing. Tournament directors are politicians of the ball field and will throw YOU under the bus as soon as they can to get themselves out of trouble.

[Jimurray]

From the OP, it seems F1 was on the rubber. Shame on me for not asking for more details. Was he on the rubber?

Sounds like he wasn't but if he was, these quotes are not exactly correct:

"Wait... going to the mouth and directly to the ball is a illegal act by F1. In FED that is a balk with runners on." from BT

and:

"Hand to mouth without wiping is illegal w/o runners. Any illegal act WITH runners is a balk."

from Trout

"6-2-4-c. making an illegal pitch from any position (6-1, 6-2-1a-d);"

Note that e thru i are not balks.

But e does get called a balk due to a FED caseplay that I hope will soon be changed.

[RC@54OUTS]

I am missing the part where it says engaged or disengaged from the rubber. The "start/stop" has nothing to do with the hand to mouth. It's the motion itself that makes it a balk?

[noumpere]

Yes -- in FED the moption of going to the mouth while engages is considered a motion associated with the pitch so that makes it a balk. Note that adjusting the hat used to be treated the same way (at least by rule even if it wasn't always called) but FED changed the case play a couple of years ago. As someone up above said, I hope they change the going to the mouth case play to match.