2-man umpiring mechanics b and c

[Guest Scott]

I always thought that the base umpires was in B position ONLY if there was a runner on first base and no other bases. That is how I remember umpiring while I was in Arizona. I recently moved to St. Louis and have umpired with umpires from Illinois that were in B position with runners on first and second, with runners on first and third, and with a runner on third only. This confused me so I asked them. They said that different umpires do it differently. I googled it to see what the standard is. I found that in Georgia they have base umpire in the B position with a runner on first only or with runners on first and third. Massachusetts Umpires Association requires B position for 1st only, 1st and 3rd, 2nd and 3rd, 3rd only, and bases loaded.

Is there an NFHS standard mechanic for this?

[ukce1861]

The standard NFHS mechanic is you're only in B with a runner on first only - any time you have a runner past first, you're in C. Most other mechanics will have you B with 1st only or 1st and 3rd. Any time there's a runner on second or no runner on first, you're in C. I'm almost certain that this is what Maximizing the Two Umpire System has and fairly positive that this is what CCA teaches as well. I prefer B for first and third because I've got almost as good an angle for any play at third and I've got a better view for the steal of second.

I can't imagine why you'd be in B with 1st and 2nd or 3rd only... In both of those, your most immediate play is likely at 3rd. If you've got a batted ball where the play will be to 1st, you've got time to get over there.

[Jocko]

A - No runners

B - R1, R1 & R3

C - R1 & R2, R1,2&3, R2 & 3

[JaxRolo]

A - No runners

B - R1, R1 & R3

C - R1 & R2, R1,2&3, R2 & 3

Bingo!

[umpire_scott]

So UKCE1861 says standard FED mechanics is B only with runner on 1st. Trout and JaxRolo say B with runner on 1st or runners on 1st and 3rd. The head of my umpires association said the following:

Mechanics: (These are what I have learned in different clinics and from other officials.) The umpire is to only be in "C" when third base is in danger of being stolen. In all other instances with runners on base, the umpire should be in "B". With that being said, not ALL officials do that, and some prefer to be in "C" if the bases are loaded or with runners on 2nd and 3rd. I prefer to do it the way the book says, which is only being in "C" when third base is in danger of being stolen.

Who is right?

[johnnyg08]

Who is right?

What Trout said:

A - No runners

B - R1, R1 & R3

C - R1 & R2, R1,2&3, R2 & 3

That being said, if you're a new umpire trying to break into a new area, do what your evaluator tells you.

[JaxRolo]

With runner on 3rd only there is a chance of pick off by pitcher or catcher. So you need to be closer to the base.

[Jocko]

I am :P

[noumpere]

There are three options and all are used somewhere in the country: (and all of the below ignore being in A with no runners of course)

First, you can be in C whenever there's a runner at second or third.

Secondly, you can be in C whenver a steal of third is possible otherwise be in B.

Third: you can be in B whenever a steal of second is a possibility, otherwise be in C

[umpire_scott]

Well I read my NFHS umpire's manual and it clearly states, with diagrams included, that ukce1861 and I, are correct. FED standard two man mechanics call for position C whenever there is a runner other than first base only. Not sure why different states have taken it upon themselves to deviate from this.

[noumpere]

Because not every state follows the FEd mechanics exactly and theres certainly more than one way to skin a cat and FED is the only (or almost) one who has PU take the batter on a triple for example and most umpires think thats just stupid.

[Jocko]

on the cover of your manual should say missouri . correct ?each state has its own manual based on the federation the rules .

[Jocko]

Because not every state follows the FEd mechanics exactly and theres certainly more than one way to skin a cat and FED is the only (or almost) one who has PU take the batter on a triple for example and most umpires think thats just stupid.

I go over this in the pre game . base umpire has better runner all the way to third

[umpire_scott]

on the cover of your manual should say missouri . correct ?each state has its own manual based on the federation the rules .

My manual that I got in Missouri says National Federation of State High School Associations, with the NFHS symbol in the upper right hand corner. It has no state designation on it. The ones in Arizona that I got never had Arizona on them either.

[umpire_scott]

Because not every state follows the FEd mechanics exactly and theres certainly more than one way to skin a cat and FED is the only (or almost) one who has PU take the batter on a triple for example and most umpires think thats just stupid.

But don't all states use the NFHS manuals for reference? Wouldn't it be known in those states that differ from what is in the manual? Seems to me it would be very confusing to be told one thing and then be given a manual that tells you differently. Yet most on this forum confidently stated that their version WAS the national FED standard.

[Jocko]

Not talking the rule book. My manual has Alabama on the front.

[umpire_scott]

Not talking the rule book. My manual has Alabama on the front.

My Baseball Umpires Manual looks just like my Baseball Rules Book. The only difference is that one says Umpires Manual and one says Rules Book. They even have the same pictures on the front. Oh and the Umpires Manual says 2011 and 2012, whereas the Rules Book only says 2011. Neither of them have anything naming the state. They never did in Arizona either.

[mstaylor]

NFHS do have a national mechanics manual. It looks exactly like the rulebook and casebook. Although some states may have their verson, most just use the national version. In my state, luckily we are allowed to use what we deem best. We used to use PBUC mechanics but for at least ten years we have switched to CCA mechanics. I have never used Fed mechanics nor will I. Personally I am in B more than anything else.

What I teach:

A) no runners

B)R1, R1/R3

C)R2, R2/R3, R3

Optional

B)R2/R3w/two outs, R1,R2,R3,R3w/two outs My personal preference but allow individual umpires to do what is more comfortable to them.

C)Same as above

[LMSANS]

I heard recently from our state liaison that the 2-man & 3-man mechanics manual is being completely re-written for 2013. In addition to editorial changes, there are some changes to the actual mechanics.

I'm not going to try to remember everything he said but some of the changes will make the anti-FED crowd happy, but others will not. The new manual is making it's way through the editorial process.

[ukce1861]

Scott, you're exactly right - there is an official NFHS umpire manual. Personally, I disagree with several of the mechanics in there - here's a few.

• PU has BR on a triple with no one on. Once BR commits to third, BU rotates home to take BR at plate.
  
• BU in C with R1, R3.
  
• PU has tag up of R2 if there's R1, R2.
  

All that being said, our association uses FED mechanics, so I use FED mechanics when I'm doing a HS game. On games where I get to choose, I don't. From what I've read here, most HS associations don't use FED mechanics. As others have said though, you need to do what your evaluator tells you to do.

[umpire_scott]

Scott, you're exactly right - there is an official NFHS umpire manual. Personally, I disagree with several of the mechanics in there - here's a few.

• PU has BR on a triple with no one on. Once BR commits to third, BU rotates home to take BR at plate.
  
• BU in C with R1, R3.
  
• PU has tag up of R2 if there's R1, R2.
  

All that being said, our association uses FED mechanics, so I use FED mechanics when I'm doing a HS game. On games where I get to choose, I don't. From what I've read here, most HS associations don't use FED mechanics. As others have said though, you need to do what your evaluator tells you to do.

Unfortunately my evaluator has told me what he's been told, but is indifferent about what he requires. This creates problems in that when I do games with a partner, I'm not sure what mechanics they will use as different umpires use different mechanics. My worry is that a coach notices this during a tournament when we switch positions between games and complains about on or the other being out of position.

In the future I think I'll just communicate during pregame and make sure one of us adjusts so that we are both doing it the same. I don't have a strong preference either way.

[mstaylor]

As a group, you really need to pick a set of mechanics and stick with them. The options I showed are just positional differences pre-pitch. Once the ball gets hit the responsibilities have to be well defined.

[noumpere]

As a group, you really need to pick a set of mechanics and stick with them. The options I showed are just positional differences pre-pitch. Once the ball gets hit the responsibilities have to be well defined.

Right it doesnt matter a whole lot where you start its where you move that matters and I might deviate from the standard in a specific situation.

[Guest Guest]

I feel like any mechanic issues can be dealt with by having a good pre-game with your partner. I mostly work 14u games for a couple of teams with my scheduling boss and we always use NFHS mechanics. But whenever I'm working with someone else, I always check what mechanics they use and make any needed adjustments. A good pre-game really can prevent most mechanic issues.

[collint1993]

^was me by the way. Forgot to sign in.

[mstaylor]

I feel like any mechanic issues can be dealt with by having a good pre-game with your partner. I mostly work 14u games for a couple of teams with my scheduling boss and we always use NFHS mechanics. But whenever I'm working with someone else, I always check what mechanics they use and make any needed adjustments. A good pre-game really can prevent most mechanic issues.

That's fine for summer ball but working Fed,college or adult wooden bat, you need standardized mechanics. The game is fast enugh that something will blow up and by always knowing where your partner should be will lessen the holes.