Uh oh...

[AmackNH]

Here is the situation...I have the plate, partner is in C on the bases. Bases are loaded with one out. Infield fly is on. Pop fly goes up between 1st and second. No infield fly cause the second baseman was holding R2 and it is not ordinary effort. second baseman comes flying in, dives and comes up with the ball. My partner starts yelling catch, catch catch and signaling out. No runners move.

Problem...From my vantage point and that of everyone on the first base side we saw the ball come out, fielder roll over it and pick it up. Batting team appeals, i tell my partner I have no catch. Now we have a mess. None of the runners moved. But now we have a batter we are calling safe with no where to put him...what do you do?

[UMP45]

Bases still loaded, 1 run scores, and preparing for the s$%#storm that is about to hit! :hopmad:

[catsbackr]

Score the run, leave the bases loaded, then prepare for the !@@### storm.

[noumpere]

In college you can't fix this call - its specifically listed in appendix D or E (I forget which is the one on getting the call right).

If you wanted to fix it then put the batter at first and try to decide who the defense would of played on and have that runner out and if it wasnt R3 then score the run.

[Replacematt]

In college you can't fix this call - its specifically listed in appendix D or E (I forget which is the one on getting the call right).

If you wanted to fix it then put the batter at first and try to decide who the defense would of played on and have that runner out and if it wasnt R3 then score the run.

MLBUM also specifically says this call's not fixable.

[Pops]

In college you can't fix this call - its specifically listed in appendix D or E (I forget which is the one on getting the call right).

If you wanted to fix it then put the batter at first and try to decide who the defense would of played on and have that runner out and if it wasnt R3 then score the run.

MLBUM also specifically says this call's not fixable.

If you are not allowed to "fix" it, what would you do? You have 4 players and only 3 bases. And I'm assuming it's a dead ball situation as you are talking to your partner. The offensive players are standing around waiting for you to decide. Now what?

[johnnyg08]

You could retroactively call IFF. Ugly but judgment call

[UmpJM]

This one you eat.

It won't go down easy.

JM

[noumpere]

In college you can't fix this call - its specifically listed in appendix D or E (I forget which is the one on getting the call right).

If you wanted to fix it then put the batter at first and try to decide who the defense would of played on and have that runner out and if it wasnt R3 then score the run.

MLBUM also specifically says this call's not fixable.

If you are not allowed to "fix" it, what would you do? You have 4 players and only 3 bases. And I'm assuming it's a dead ball situation as you are talking to your partner. The offensive players are standing around waiting for you to decide. Now what?

Your partner called catch and it doesnt look like you called anything. So its a catch. Runners remain and the former batter goes to the bench.

[Jocko]

Bases loaded 2 outs. It's a s**t sandwich. Bon Appetit.

[AmackNH]

Thanks guys...pretty much what i am reading here is either way, get a bib and start eating...I am in my second year and this one ate me up. My partner is a 35+ year guy. When we got together he said to me "SH*#, we kicked this one. everyone over there knows it wasnt a catch. I called it too quick. We cant have an out and we gotta put the runner somewhere. Everyone moves up a base, R3 goes to dugout, no run scores."

I say "how can we just take a runner off and not have him scoring or an out?"

He says "thats we're doing" and went and verbalized the call.

In the postmortem (pun intended) I feel like I got runover a little in the decision making. It sorta felt like to me he was trying to minimize the SH*#storm by not really penalizing anyone...no run/no out...

[umpcoachfather]

Who was watching the runners?

[AmackNH]

@umpcoachfather...we both had runner responsibilities. I had the tag at third if there was one, he had R1 and R2. With IFF on I was also taking a look to determine if it needed to be called. Is there an implication in that question? Let it fly if there was...I am open to learning.

[Jocko]

@umpcoachfather...we both had runner responsibilities. I had the tag at third if there was one, he had R1 and R2. With IFF on I was also taking a look to determine if it needed to be called. Is there an implication in that question? Let it fly if there was...I am open to learning.

Nice retort. +1

[johnnyg08]

It sorta felt like to me he was trying to minimize the SH*#storm by not really penalizing anyone...no run/no out...

See, umpires like this will do whatever they can to minimize their errors and do nothing to get better as an umpire. Creating rules and "do overs" that don't exist is poor umpiring.

[AZump78]

So can you explain to me again why IFF is NOT called in this situation?

[firemanump]

I feel that this should be an IFF. Ordinary effort or not it still should be an IFF. Don't you guys agree. I know that if this was a NFHS it would have been one and you would have went home hungry instead of full from your sh** sandwhich!

[MPLSMatt]

How is this IFF when the rule clearly says "ordinary effort" and the play was an extrordinary dive play? I think you eat it. Let the call stand as an out and send your partner to explain the situation (honestly) to the offensive coach. To be honest, he shouldn't be too pissed because it sounds like there would have likely been an out somewhere. It's the same result as the IFF anyway.

Sounds like your partner screwed this with bad timing and then pushed you around when he painted himself into a corner. Doesn't mean he's a bad dude (as I'm sure there was a bit of panic) but he definately didn't handle any part of this correctly.

[JaxRolo]

So if you have a high infield fly and no defenders move until the last second when they have to dive at the ball you don't call IFF?

I don't know about you guys but if I have a High Fly ball. I will call IFF at the apex. I don't care were the fielders are. Its a catchable ball.

[umpcoachfather]

no implication, just trying to get you to think. where did you go when the ball was hit? where was your partner? Did you discuss pregame?

[Jocko]

So if you have a high infield fly and no defenders move until the last second when they have to dive at the ball you don't call IFF?

I don't know about you guys but if I have a High Fly ball. I will call IFF at the apex. I don't care were the fielders are. Its a catchable ball.

LH batter. Shift on. F4 shallow RF, F6 directly behind 2b, F5 deeeeep SS. Pop up to 3rd where F5 would normally be, but because of the shift he will not have time to camp out. He will have to sprint/slide/dive to catch the ball. Still got IFF?

[JaxRolo]

So if you have a high infield fly and no defenders move until the last second when they have to dive at the ball you don't call IFF?

I don't know about you guys but if I have a High Fly ball. I will call IFF at the apex. I don't care were the fielders are. Its a catchable ball.

LH batter. Shift on. F4 shallow RF, F6 directly behind 2b, F5 deeeeep SS. Pop up to 3rd where F5 would normally be, but because of the shift he will not have time to camp out. He will have to sprint/slide/dive to catch the ball. Still got IFF?

There are exceptions to every rule! :wave:

[AmackNH]

So if you have a high infield fly and no defenders move until the last second when they have to dive at the ball you don't call IFF?

I don't know about you guys but if I have a High Fly ball. I will call IFF at the apex. I don't care were the fielders are. Its a catchable ball.

LH batter. Shift on. F4 shallow RF, F6 directly behind 2b, F5 deeeeep SS. Pop up to 3rd where F5 would normally be, but because of the shift he will not have time to camp out. He will have to sprint/slide/dive to catch the ball. Still got IFF?

@Jax, is this not one where I would have to "umpire" as I have seen quoted? Ball goes up, I judge where it is, glance at the fielder and make the call. If I just watch the ball to its apex how am I adjudging ordinary effort per the rule? Legit question, not trying to be defensive.

[AmackNH]

no implication, just trying to get you to think. where did you go when the ball was hit? where was your partner? Did you discuss pregame?

Got it. I didnt mean that to come off as super defensive. To answer your question...I stayed at home (where I had signaled I would be watching the tag at third to my partner prior to the first pitch of the at bat). My partner was in C and started toward B on contact. What we discussed pregame was that we would use standard 2 man mechanics for our association. I dont this it was the mechanics that got US in trouble, rather some timing issues, my partners apprehension to take the heat and MY LACK OF FORTITUDE TO FORCE THE ISSUE. LESSON LEARNED.

[JaxRolo]

So if you have a high infield fly and no defenders move until the last second when they have to dive at the ball you don't call IFF?

I don't know about you guys but if I have a High Fly ball. I will call IFF at the apex. I don't care were the fielders are. Its a catchable ball.

LH batter. Shift on. F4 shallow RF, F6 directly behind 2b, F5 deeeeep SS. Pop up to 3rd where F5 would normally be, but because of the shift he will not have time to camp out. He will have to sprint/slide/dive to catch the ball. Still got IFF?

@Jax, is this not one where I would have to "umpire" as I have seen quoted? Ball goes up, I judge where it is, glance at the fielder and make the call. If I just watch the ball to its apex how am I adjudging ordinary effort per the rule? Legit question, not trying to be defensive.

You are correct sir! I was quick in my answer. You do have to take a quick gander and make your call. :notworthy: