Bunt?

[JaxRolo]

He won't have to worry about bunts. I think they are illegal in pitching machine games.

Actually I believe they are legal here but how would I know.:kissass:

[Astrosdawg07]

To get back on topic here; watching the end of the barrel is a great way to tell if he attempted or not. If you see it move in a direction towards the ball. Then it's an attempt! And you can notice a difference if it was deliberate or not! Must be deliberate!

[Mr Umpire]

No doubt. I have seen many think along the same lines, though you seem to be the only one on here.

I have seen a batter stand and never move the bat towards the ball. Not even close and the ball was no where near the bat or zone. I called it a ball and explained it to the DC when questioned. No issues after explaining it needs to be an attempt. It usually happens with inept or young players.

[JaxRolo]

No doubt. I have seen many think along the same lines, though you seem to be the only one on here.

I have seen a batter stand and never move the bat towards the ball. Not even close and the ball was no where near the bat or zone. I called it a ball and explained it to the DC when questioned. No issues after explaining it needs to be an attempt. It usually happens with inept or young players.

I will change my way of calling it. After all I am hear to learn.

The only reason I kept the argument going is because of the ones that get rude and personal on here and was getting a kick out of it. I'm surprise Warren allows it but it is his forum. It is what it is.

[HokieUmp]

I do know they teach that at the Pro school.. Yes I'm going.. still havent made my mind up to which one.. im about 90% leaning one way.

As an Evans guy, that's my vote. Not that my opinion will sway you one way or the other....

[PeteBooth]

Well, that's not the pro school teaching, as you'll find out in January. (You are going, right? I'm not remembering the wrong person, am I??)

Pitch has to be offered at to be called a strike. Holding the bat out there isn't enough. Sorry, Jax and Paper, but you're kinda running in the minority.

Is it judgment? Yes and no. The judgment part is that the umpire has to judge the batter made an attempt to strike at the ball. The ruling/interpretation/teaching part is that we're told "holding the bat out there is NOT an attempt."

I have not been to PRO school but many a clinic taught by PRO umpires and this point is hardly covered.

Why!

Because for the most part you will NOT see shaven players simply holding the bat motionless over home plate. I have been watching PRO ball a long time and I have yet to see a PRO player simply holding the bat motionless over the plate. They either offer at it or pull the bat back - one of the 2.

Holding the bat motionless over the plate is a tactic taught by "daddy" coaches at the youth level to try and rattle F1. That's it's use in a nutshell. Coaches should be teaching players how to actually bunt the ball rather then pull this type of stunt BUT as most of us know at the youth level it's about winning and not necessarily about developing players.

Let's face it, if a shaved player held the bat motionless over the plate to try and rattle / confuse F1 it might last all of one pitch because on the very next pitch not only would the bat be moving but the player ducking out of the way.

This topic generated many responses but as mentioned it's a youth issue. I have been doing HS and upper ball for quite some-time now and you do NOT see a player holding the bat motionless over the plate and for good reason.

Pete Booth

[Umpire in Chief]

While I agree you don't see it we're talking hypothetical. So given the situation of presenting the bunt, but making no effort to strike at the ball assuming the ball doesn't enter the zone no strike.

[HokieUmp]

I have not been to PRO school but many a clinic taught by PRO umpires and this point is hardly covered.

Why!

Because for the most part you will NOT see shaven players simply holding the bat motionless over home plate. I have been watching PRO ball a long time and I have yet to see a PRO player simply holding the bat motionless over the plate. They either offer at it or pull the bat back - one of the 2.

Holding the bat motionless over the plate is a tactic taught by "daddy" coaches at the youth level to try and rattle F1. That's it's use in a nutshell. Coaches should be teaching players how to actually bunt the ball rather then pull this type of stunt BUT as most of us know at the youth level it's about winning and not necessarily about developing players.

Let's face it, if a shaved player held the bat motionless over the plate to try and rattle / confuse F1 it might last all of one pitch because on the very next pitch not only would the bat be moving but the player ducking out of the way.

This topic generated many responses but as mentioned it's a youth issue. I have been doing HS and upper ball for quite some-time now and you do NOT see a player holding the bat motionless over the plate and for good reason.

I have to admit - between this thread and the "coach picks up the ball" thread, I'm wondering if you're arguing for the sake of arguing. But I'll assume that's not the intent, and reply.

Maybe the shaving players here are just not as good as where you are, but I have seen, this year, a JV or varsity player (forget which) keep his bat out when he decided not to bunt at the pitch. The pitches in question were out of the zone, so he left them alone. It had eff-all to do with rattling an F1, but a decision on the players part not to bunt at the ball. And no, it had nothing to do with the BS 3-0 pitch stuff - where the batter has no intent, but puts the bat out on a 3-0 count to throw the pitcher off. These were players that realized the pitches were either out of the strike zone and/or not good pitches to bunt. So they didn't. Nothing "daddy coached" about it; they siimply chose not to make an attempt, and didn't pull the bat back.

I've seen it happen when I'm on the plate, and when I've had a partner. And no attempt meant no strike was called.

And if the batter had been ducking the next pitch after it because the pitcher had some a$$ pain about "The Code" on that sitch, I'm tossing F1. Intentionally throwing at a hitter, and all that. But it hasn't happened, because maybe players/coaches here understand batters don't always end up bunting at the ball, and haven't decided to extend "The Code" to every perceived 'outrage.'

Look, I get the "daddy coach" training - where the batter squares, and then stands like a statue, because there was never any intention to actually put a ball into play. I'm talking about players that make a choice. Is the bat truly "motionless," as the word has been thrown around? In actual physics terms, probably not - time lapse would probably show some movement. But if whatever little movement that DOES happen ain't going after the ball, it's not getting called. Full stop.

[th3]

fed softball, if anyone cares, says "holding the bat in the strike zone is considered a bunt attempt. In order to take a pitch, the bat must be withdrawn - pulled backward and away from the ball" (2-8-2)

[mstaylor]

I would like to apologize to everyone for my cluelessness and lack of abilities as an umpire. Maybe I need to read all the books and watch all the videos I have purchased.

I will tell my assignor to quit putting me on the college showcase games, High School games and quit assigning me to work all these tournaments. I will tell him to me me on the Pitching machine league where all I have to do is count the pitches.

Work at a level you feel comfortable. :hi5:

[th3]

Originally Posted by JaxRolo

I would like to apologize to everyone for my cluelessness and lack of abilities as an umpire. Maybe I need to read all the books and watch all the videos I have purchased.

I will tell my assignor to quit putting me on the college showcase games, High School games and quit assigning me to work all these tournaments. I will tell him to me me on the Pitching machine league where all I have to do is count the pitches

does it pay the same?