Pitcher straddling the rubber

[Richvee]

I'm seeing this more and more and I'd like some advice on this.

R1. RH F1, with the ball in his pitching hand, heads to the rubber. He puts his pivot foot behind the rubber, pitching hand behind his back. Straddling the rubber, he takes a wide stance, leans over his left leg, facing home and looks left towards R1. After staring at R1 a while, he moves the pivot foot forward and engages the rubber. He then stretches, and from there, everything is fine.

As far as I can tell this is OK? Or, does the assuming a wide, "pre-stretch" position while straddling the rubber constitute a "pitching motion" and therefore be a violation of 8.05(g)?

My feeling is as long as he gets that pivot foot in contact with the rubber before he starts to stretch, he's OK. Correct??

Another note..In no way is F1 doing this and then stepping on the rubber and quick pitching.

[grayhawk]

I don't have a problem with it as long as he isn't getting his signs while in this position. If he is getting signs, then I am going to call time and instruct him to take his signs while on the rubber. If he's just taking a look at R1, and then engages and takes his signs, then it's all good.

[bam]

How do you know he's not getting signs? If he looks at his catcher, is that a problem?

And what ruleset?

[grayhawk]

How do you know he's not getting signs? If he looks at his catcher, is that a problem?

And what ruleset?

If he's staring into F2, then chances are he is getting his signs. This happens every once in a while and I just tell him to stop doing it. I have never had to tell anyone twice. Both OBR and Fed have language stating that F1 shall take his signs while on the pitcher's plate. Childress thinks it's a balk in Fed (as do some others), but it's a "don't do that" to me. Definitely NOT a balk in OBR.

There have been other threads in this forum on the subject of taking signs off the rubber, so I will let those stand on their own merit.

[Richvee]

How do you know he's not getting signs? If he looks at his catcher, is that a problem?

And what ruleset?

Agree the "signs from the rubber" debate is well documented here and other sites. My main question here is does anyone have a problem with letting the pitcher straddle the rubber and assume that wide stance, "pre-stretch" position while not in contact with the rubber. .

[grayhawk]

How do you know he's not getting signs? If he looks at his catcher, is that a problem?

And what ruleset?

Agree the "signs from the rubber" debate is well documented here and other sites. My main question here is does anyone have a problem with letting the pitcher straddle the rubber and assume that wide stance, "pre-stretch" position while not in contact with the rubber. .

As described Rich, I have no problem with it. We can't wipe R1's butt for him - he has to have some situational awareness. If you can see F1 isn't on the rubber, then he should be able to see it too.

[Jocko]

No. Until he toes the rubber, he's a fielder, same as F6 or F3. From your OP, he's absolutely legal. Don't hunt for it, just call it when you see it. If you doubt it leave it alone.

[Richvee]

Don't hunt for it, just call it when you see it. If you doubt it leave it alone.

Great advice for me. Sometimes when I'm on the bases, maybe I am "hunting" . Something I'll definitely keep in mind.

Thanks! :beerbang

[Rich Ives]

He does NOT have to take signs from the catcher. He does not need to take signs at all. He can take them from anyone from anywhere. If he does take signs from the catcher it must while in contact. He doesn't have to fake taking signs - that's a myth. As long as he doesn't quick pitch he's fine. Quick pitch is defined in 2.00 for OBR. If he waits until the batter is reasonably set in the batter's box before starting to come set he's fine.

[Jocko]

He does NOT have to take signs from the catcher. He does not need to take signs at all. He can take them from anyone from anywhere. If he does take signs from the catcher it must while in contact. He doesn't have to fake taking signs - that's a myth. As long as he doesn't quick pitch he's fine. Quick pitch is defined in 2.00 for OBR. If he waits until the batter is reasonably set in the batter's box before starting to come set he's fine.

just curious..... What level of ball do you officiate? Has no bearing on this thread, but you seem to be all over the place.

[Jocko]

Rule 6-1-1 (fed) "He shall take his sign FROM THE CATCHER with his pivot foot in contact with the pitcher's plate." You can interpolate (look it up) the rule to mean what YOU want, but if he's taking signs, they're to be from the catcher, while in contact with the rubber. I don't agree with the concept that, in your words, he can take signs from anyone anywhere. Just not correct. Sorry.

[bam]

Rule 6-1-1 (fed) "He shall take his sign FROM THE CATCHER with his pivot foot in contact with the pitcher's plate." You can interpolate (look it up) the rule to mean what YOU want, but if he's taking signs, they're to be from the catcher, while in contact with the rubber. I don't agree with the concept that, in your words, he can take signs from anyone anywhere. Just not correct. Sorry.

Wait. What? The pitcher can't take signs from anywhere but F2? THAT'S wrong, but I think I know what you actually meant.

Again, this has been debated in multiple threads on multiple forums, but I typically don't go looking for problems, so unless F1 is literally asking F2 "WHATS THE SIGN?" while straddling the plate, it's all good.

[Jocko]

Pretty much :)

[mrumpiresir]

The pitching rules apply once the pitcher contacts the rubber. Prior to that, he can take signs from anyone. The purpose of the rule is to prevent a quick pitch. Once he contacts the rubber he must take (or simulate taking) his sign from the catcher. This is a poorly written and generally misunderstood rule.

[Rich Ives]

Rule 6-1-1 (fed) "He shall take his sign FROM THE CATCHER with his pivot foot in contact with the pitcher's plate." You can interpolate (look it up) the rule to mean what YOU want, but if he's taking signs, they're to be from the catcher, while in contact with the rubber. I don't agree with the concept that, in your words, he can take signs from anyone anywhere. Just not correct. Sorry.

Nice try but you'll lose this one.

It means "When taking signs from the catcher he must be in contact with the rubber".

If he's off the rubber he can take signs from anywhere - show me a rule that says he cannot. Tell me how you would know what he was doing anyhow.

[SanDiegoSteve]

He does NOT have to take signs from the catcher. He does not need to take signs at all. He can take them from anyone from anywhere. If he does take signs from the catcher it must while in contact. He doesn't have to fake taking signs - that's a myth. As long as he doesn't quick pitch he's fine. Quick pitch is defined in 2.00 for OBR. If he waits until the batter is reasonably set in the batter's box before starting to come set he's fine.

just curious..... What level of ball do you officiate? Has no bearing on this thread, but you seem to be all over the place.

Answer: No level of ball. He is a coach, not an umpire. Did you notice his avatar? Kind of gives it away.

[midmoump]

1. Pitcher must always take signs from the catcher only and must do do so while contacting the rubber.

2. If the pitcher takes signs from anyone, he must do so while contacting the rubber. (Jim Booth interp)

3. The pitcher does not have to take signs or may take them from anyone at anytime other than the catcher. However, if he takes signs from the catcher, he must do so while contacting the rubber.

Even at the hs level I see pitchers getting defensive signals from the ss. Is that a "sign?" HTF should I know? The only reasonable interp is Rich's #3.

Pete

[umpcoachfather]

the pitcher must take or simulte taking the sign from the rubber.

[sdix00]

FRUM the WUM

• §6.2.1 Restrictions with No Penalties
  
  • The pitcher may not take signs from the catcher without being in contact with the pitcher's plate [8.01]
    
  • may not disengage the pitcher's plate after every sign [8.01 Comment],
    
  • may not engage the pitcher's plate with his hands together,
    
  • and may not disengage the pitcher's plate without separating his hands.
    

If any of these occur, the umpire should immediately call "time," and instruct the pitcher to correct his infraction.