1 Umpire 2 volunteers & Positioning

[Astrosdawg07]

This year I'm helping a youth league with their fall ball program. Tonight I did 5 pitch machine. The way they have it set up is you have 2 volunteers (parent from the stands) one at 3rd making safe/out calls only at 3rd and 1 at the plate calling safe/outs and counting pitches. With the actual umpire at 1st. Their reasoning for having the actual umpire at 1st is because most calls are made at 1st and 2nd, however he can overturn any "incorrect call." In my opinion it would be best for the actual umpire to be at the plate that way he has a clear view of all plays and the entire field. Especially with the volunteers having 0 training at all. This would would make PU responsible for all fair/foul, fly balls and have a better angle on any other calls than opposed to being stuck in A or an abbreviated B closer to first for the fair/foul call there. What's your take? :HD:

[jjb]

OK, you've got three "umpires" for a 5 year old machine pitch game?

I know where I'd position myself.....

But, in answer to your question, I'm with you: behind the plate...

[jnazz]

Let one volunteer or coach feed the machine and have the umpire set up behind the plate calling everything OR have the umpire feed and call everything, period. The volunteer on third just presents problems. It would be very difficult and intimidating for a 12 yr. old umpire to over rule an adult. And, knowing the way some parents are, I can see a Dad making a scene after getting over ruled by a 12 yr. old umpire.

Just my 2 cents.

[Astrosdawg07]

Let one volunteer or coach feed the machine and have the umpire set up behind the plate calling everything OR have the umpire feed and call everything, period. The volunteer on third just presents problems. It would be very difficult and intimidating for a 12 yr. old umpire to over rule an adult. And, knowing the way some parents are, I can see a Dad making a scene after getting over ruled by a 12 yr. old umpire.

Just my 2 cents.

Well thankfully we do have 1 TRUE umpire working and is the only one eligible to overrule a call. Although I would only do it if its is just beyond obvious. If its close, tough break! :jerkit:

[jjb]

AC, I get it that you're probably not in charge of policy here, but, if the "real umpire" can overrule the "parent/coach/homeless guy you found under the stands/", then why do you even need the "volunteers"? This is 5 year old Machine Pitch (and it's Fall Ball, for cryin' out loud!) IMHO, they should remove the name "Coach" from the Job Description and replace it with "Shepherd". They should remove the Umpire, and replace him with a floor lamp and a flipping coin in the A position: it'll work just as well.

[noumpere]

Untrained volunteers (in the sense you are using it here -- not in the LL volunteer sense) shouldn't be used in any game.

Use just the one trained umpire.

[kylejt]

Well thankfully we do have 1 TRUE umpire working....

I thought we were talking about a game with a pitching machine, and kindergarten children.

Hey, if a league is willing to pay $ to have someone stand around a play umpire for a bunch in half-baked adults, so be it. Money is money. And getting it, these days, is a good thing. But let's not confuse this with umpiring a baseball game.

So when in Rome (or Texas), do as the Romans do. If getting Dad on the field to make some calls at third works, do it. The more the merrier, and he may come to like it and actually get trained. That's a good thing, in the long run.

Just follow the procedures laid out by the league. It's all silly to begin with, but it's a gig, right? Why fight it? Just take their money, if they're willing to pay it.

Honestly, these games should be officiated by the parents, or a couple of 11 year olds. But again, if they're willing to give you money, who are you do turn it down?

Question: Is the PU geared up? I mean, you've got little kids, and a metal projectile. Where does the PU stand?

[Astrosdawg07]

PU just stand a little ways to the side of the batter. So no, no gear. I could careless how the league does it, but I always look for ways to improve things that I see can be improved. And yes I agree its crazy they even use paid umpires for this, but hey better than working a 9 inning blow out plate game!

[JaxRolo]

Hey, if a league is willing to pay $ to have someone stand around a play umpire for a bunch in half-baked adults, so be it. Money is money. And getting it, these days, is a good thing.

Honestly, these games should be officiated by the parents, or a couple of 11 year olds. But again, if they're willing to give you money, who are you do turn it down?

I am with you 100%. Money is money.

A while back I mentioned that I worked a couple of T-ball games. $35 a game with 1:20 time. Easy money! But I got flamed big time by some of the guys on here.

Yes I agree there should be no umps but if they are going to pay anyway...

[semper_fi_72]

Money is money, but I wouldn't take any of the games regardless.

That is not umpiring.

It is baby sitting and laziness of coaches.

As far as the volunteers go.

Train them to be umpires not just sticking them on the field.

3 so called umpires for a machine pitch game

I don't think the plays will be that close.

That is 2 more than a High School Freshman or JV team get for a regular season game.

[yawetag]

I know where I'd position myself.....

I'd be sitting right next to you, too! :mad:

[yawetag]

but hey better than working a 9 inning blow out plate game!

Not in my opinion.

My goal in umpiring is to move up to better games. If I'm sitting on a machine-pitch game simply to make money, I'm not moving up -- I'm becoming stagnant. I'd much rather take that time to be U3 on a wood bat league after asking my assignor if I could be looked at for higher assignments.

If you want to go out there and watch a bunch of 5-year-olds hit a ball, simply because "it pays money", then have at it. In my life, though, I'll find a game that will allow me to be better, and will allow me to get better games. We'll see what kind of games we're each doing in 10 years.

[JaxRolo]

My goal is also to move up and I have been moving up quickly over the lat year thanks to you guys and all that I have learned on here. Out of 105 Umpires in our association I am now one of a small group of about 12 umpires that will get most of the better games. So if my assignor asks me to do a Pitching machine game once in a blue moon I am glad to do it.

Edited September 16, 2010 by JaxRolo

[noumpere]

Not in my opinion.

My goal in umpiring is to move up to better games. If I'm sitting on a machine-pitch game simply to make money, I'm not moving up -- I'm becoming stagnant. I'd much rather take that time to be U3 on a wood bat league after asking my assignor if I could be looked at for higher assignments.

If you want to go out there and watch a bunch of 5-year-olds hit a ball, simply because "it pays money", then have at it. In my life, though, I'll find a game that will allow me to be better, and will allow me to get better games. We'll see what kind of games we're each doing in 10 years.

Good for you. Seriously.

This is an example of the difference between taking money to umpire and umpiring for the money.

[semper_fi_72]

My goal is also to move up and I have been moving up quickly over the lat year thanks to you guys and all that I have learned on here. Out of 105 Umpires in our association I am now one of a small group of about 12 umpires that will get most of the better games. So if my assignor asks me to do a Pitching machine game once in a blue moon I am glad to do it.

The Assignor should be sending the other 93 out for those games.

Not his good guys.

An Assignor out here wouldn't even get involved in handling Machine Pitch games.

[jjb]

Occasionally, I'm asked to "drop down" to a lower (12u and below) game to fill in a hole. I''ve found that my strike zone suffers when I come back. Try working a 14 year-old game, then a 12, and then a Varsity, and you'll see a train wreck in progress. So, I won't go down there unless it's absolutely necessary.

In our League, it's also not fiscally sound. We get paid based on the level of the Umpire, not on the level of the game. I get paid the same for a Varsity Game as this Machine Pitch game: it'd be cheaper to pay for a 14 year old kid to work them.

[tjshanno]

At the risk of seeming insensitive, WTH are umpires doing on a five year old field with a machine pitch? Money, or no money? I wouldn't subject my five year old son, or daughter, to this type of baseball "education", even if it is just for "fun".

If your association must have a 5yo league, let the kid see as many pitches as it takes to get a hit, and/or set a base on balls limit. The coaches can determine who is out or safe.

Maybe it's just me......

[mstaylor]

To be honest with you I never considered pitching machine leagues one way or the other until this year. My nephew has played in a league for the last two years and went to a fair amount of the games this year. They always had an adult umpiring, sometimes good, sometimes not so much. If my brother asked me to help out I would.

Personally I have pretty much done everything locally at all levels so I have nothing to prove. About the only thing I haven't done is a HS state final, done semis, and a LLWS. While nice I am not worried about either.

I don't see it as regressing as helping out a youth system, I would not charge. All that said, having three umpires is nuts, having the experienced one anywhere except behind the plate is nuts and being able to overrule partners is nuts. Put one guy out there and let him run the field or put the three out there but let them do their job.

[Astrosdawg07]

Not in my opinion.

My goal in umpiring is to move up to better games. If I'm sitting on a machine-pitch game simply to make money, I'm not moving up -- I'm becoming stagnant. I'd much rather take that time to be U3 on a wood bat league after asking my assignor if I could be looked at for higher assignments.

If you want to go out there and watch a bunch of 5-year-olds hit a ball, simply because "it pays money", then have at it. In my life, though, I'll find a game that will allow me to be better, and will allow me to get better games. We'll see what kind of games we're each doing in 10 years.

I guess you missed my OP. I'm helping out a local youth league! Being in college its hard for me to call anything outside of this, during the fall while also working. I load up my school schedule in the fall so I can call as many upper level (HS to college 'NAIA') games in the spring.

Maybe you could stand to give back to baseball when you get the chance! It means a lot to the parents and the kids as well to have an umpire there working in a professional manner. Sounds like to me your more worried about advancing yourself than the actual game! :shrug:

[mstaylor]

AChesnut:

Some guys do prefer to work on advancing their careers and not worrying about youth sports. This is not a bad thing if it works for them. I personally enjoy helping youth leagues, I don't see it as a step back or being beneath me. I don't get paid for any 60ft baseball I do.

[Astrosdawg07]

I'm all about advancing as well! However when I can't do to school during the fall I think the least I can do is give back to the league that I first started umpiring in! I think it is the umpires who only worry about themselves that give us a bad name.