Base stealing question following a <acronym title='Bases on Balls'>BB</acronym>

[wolfman645]

My questions are regarding the stealing of a base directly following a walk in Little League vs. HS vs. Major Leagues etc...

OK, here is the situtation:

• Nobody on base, 1 out.
  
• Pitcher walks the batter.
  
• Ball 4 was a wild pitch and the catcher was being lazy/slow in getting to the ball.
  
• Meanwhile the walked batter hustled over to 1B, and then proceeded to steal 2nd before the slow/lazy catcher got a chance to get the ball back to the pitcher.
  

2 questions:

1. Is this legal? If so, I assume the moral of the story is the catcher better get the ball back to the pitcher quickly.

2. What is the general rule? For example, the runners can steal provided the pitcher doesn't have the ball???? I wonder if this is the same for LL vs. HS vs. MLB?

Thanks.

[scrounge]

I don't know LL but HS or MLB? It's a live ball, shame on F2 for being slow. Pitcher having the ball is irrelevant.

[Thunderheads]

On a walk ...BR is awarded first base, ...anything else is at his own peril. it's legal

[umpcoachfather]

Always legal why wouldnt it be? Ball is alive and 1st is what he gets, if he can steal the rest all the better. that will be the last time that catcher is lazy back there.

[wolfman645]

Thanks Scrounge, Thunderheads and umpcoachfather....much appreciated. That clarifies it for sure at the MLB or HS level since the ball remains live.

The two things I know that are clear about 46/60 LL rules are that 1) leading is not permitted, and 2). the runner is not allowed to steal a base until after a pitched ball has crossed home plate. With those youth baseball rule as the backdrop for 46/60 LL, I wonder how this impacts the situation I have mentioned above from a LL perspective. Given this, would it be safe to assume that in 46/60 LL the runner can not steal a base once the pitcher has the ball so as long as the catcher got the ball back to the pitcher in a timely manner the runner is in "jail" at 1B.

[ukce1861]

It's legal in LL. If the pitcher has the ball and is in position to pitch (on the rubber) and the catcher is in position to receive the pitch (need not be squatting, only in the box) then the runner cannot leave the base. However, a runner that is already off the bag cannot be forced to go back just because the pitcher's on the rubber. In this case, the pitcher cannot freeze the runner at 1st by getting the ball.

Welcome to the site! PM me your e-mail address and I'll send you the LL Rules Interpretation Manual - it's a handy document to help figure out some of these issues.

[wolfman645]

Thanks UKCE1861, just sent you a PM.

So in summary for LL:

If pitcher is on rubber and catcher is squatting ready to receive and if the base runner is on the base, then the runner can not lead or steal, so the ball is technically dead.

If however, the runner was off the bag prior to the pitcher and catcher being ready to go, then the runner is free to make a decision to either return to the bag, or steal at his his own risk.

[ukce1861]

Thanks UKCE1861, just sent you a PM.

So in summary for LL:

If pitcher is on rubber and catcher is squatting ready to receive and if the base runner is on the base, then the runner can not lead or steal, so the ball is technically dead.

If however, the runner was off the bag prior to the pitcher and catcher being ready to go, then the runner is free to make a decision to either return to the bag, or steal at his his own risk.

Not quite... The ball's not dead. If the runner leads off after the pitcher and catcher are in position, then it's a delayed dead ball and 7.13 comes into play.

Your second sentence is correct for the most part. It's not quite as dramatic as the look back rule in SB; the runner doesn't have to make a decision to return or steal. He can just stand there. At some point though, something's gotta give...

[SAB_UIC_TX]

So how about this, same as initial situation but, runner hustles to first makes a hard turn and goes 4 or 5 steps toward second like he's taking off, catcher recovers the ball and runner thinks twice about it. F2 throws to first for a tag on R1; is this nothing or is he out as he committed to going to second?

[Mike Prince]

On a walk the B/R is only protected to 1B. He doesn't have to make a turn towards second, simply overstepping or overrunning the bag puts him at risk of being put out.

[ukce1861]

On a walk the B/R is only protected to 1B. He doesn't have to make a turn towards second, simply overstepping or overrunning the bag puts him at risk of being put out.

Not true, except in FED.

SAB, in your post, I'd have him out all day long.

[Rich Ives]

Thanks UKCE1861, just sent you a PM.

So in summary for LL:

If pitcher is on rubber and catcher is squatting ready to receive and if the base runner is on the base, then the runner can not lead or steal, so the ball is technically dead.

The catcher does not need to be squatting. He just needs to be in the box, all gear on, and facing the pitcher.

FWIW, the catcher never needs to squat.

[Rich Ives]

On a walk the B/R is only protected to 1B. He doesn't have to make a turn towards second, simply overstepping or overrunning the bag puts him at risk of being put out.

Only true in FED.

In OBR and NCAA he can overrun (straight thriugh) and not be at risk.

[Mike Prince]

I stand corrected. Thanks guys for the FED clarification, sorry if my post caused any confusion for the OBR crowd

[semper_fi_72]

This is also a prime example as why you never grant Time until the BR has reached 1B and you are sure play is relaxed and he isn't going any where else.

[treydawgmt]

And, if I recall correctly, in LL if the pitcher has the ball and is on the rubber and the catcher is ready, the B/R can still go to second IF he does not stop while running to first. If he stops at all though, then he is not allowed to steal second. (But I've done almost no LL, so I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I've read that a few places.)

[carolinablue]

Thanks UKCE1861, just sent you a PM.

So in summary for LL:

If pitcher is on rubber and catcher is squatting ready to receive and if the base runner is on the base, then the runner can not lead or steal, so the ball is technically dead.

The catcher does not need to be squatting. He just needs to be in the box, all gear on, and facing the pitcher.

FWIW, the catcher never needs to squat.

If he wants a strike he does. :D

[Jimurray]

" FWIW, the catcher never needs to squat." Where does the " catcher needs to squat" myth come from? I haven't heard it that much but enough to wonder where it's required.

[mstaylor]

And, if I recall correctly, in LL if the pitcher has the ball and is on the rubber and the catcher is ready, the B/R can still go to second IF he does not stop while running to first. If he stops at all though, then he is not allowed to steal second. (But I've done almost no LL, so I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I've read that a few places.)

If he stops, he has to decide to advance or return. If he stays off the base and but doesn't advance, the pitcher may decide to ignore him and pitch. If he does so then 7.13 kicks in and he has to return. Getting the ball on the mound doesn't freeze him but if he doesn't try to get anywhere then it can still bite him. If the pitcher decides to ignore him, then decides to step off and play on the runner the 7.13 is off and the defense buys whatever happens.