Illegal pitch

[bam]

FED rules. Pitcher in windup position. Steps back with non-pivot foot to pitch, then disengages entirely. I've always been told this is nothing. Had this in a freshman game the other day and just ignored it. Nobody said anything. However I was just looking at the dead and delayed dead ball chart in the FED book and Activity #1 says this is an illegal pitch with an award/penalty of a called ball. Re-read the actual rule and it appears that it should be a ball. Is there an approved ruling somewhere, anywhere for this?

[noumpere]

In FED it is by rule an illegal pitch and a ball but its sometimes ignored depending on where you are. It is nothing in other rules.

[bam]

My rules interpreter says it's a "no pitch", and that an illegal pitch is something entirely different. Which is fine by me.

[SanDiegoSteve]

I just ignore it when there are no runners. If runners, of course it's a balk. It's nothing in OBR, so why does FED want to make a "Federal" case over it?

[Minnz]

Hey did it effect anything? No, then play on no penalty. That is always the question that should be asked with dealing with FED rules.

[Richvee]

I believe it is a ball in little league. I'd have to look it up.

[Richvee]

Maybe I'm wrong. Our little league has called a ball when bases are empty and a pitch starts and stops his delivery.

OBR

8.05 If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when—

(a) The pitcher, while touching his plate, makes any motion naturally associated with

his pitch and fails to make such delivery;

Little league

8.05 An illegal pitch (a balk in JR, Sr and big league) when a runner or runners are on base when

a. The pitcher, while touching his plate, makes any motion naturally associated with

his pitch and fails to make such delivery;

Reading this, I'm thinking no violation with the bases empty??

[Rich Ives]

Not a violation with no runners.

[bam]

In OBR/LL it's definiitely nothing with no runners. In FED, by rule it's a ball, but we're instructed to ignore it, which again, is fine by me.

[mstaylor]

This is a prime example of LCD rules that FED do sometimes. There was a certain person high in FED that felt that it was easier to have a penalty at all times. It actully makes it harder because it doesn't match everything else.

[Richvee]

Maybe I'm wrong. Our little league has called a ball when bases are empty and a pitch starts and stops his delivery.

OBR

8.05 If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when—

(a) The pitcher, while touching his plate, makes any motion naturally associated with

his pitch and fails to make such delivery;

Little league

8.05 An illegal pitch (a balk in JR, Sr and big league) when a runner or runners are on base when

a. The pitcher, while touching his plate, makes any motion naturally associated with

his pitch and fails to make such delivery;

Reading this, I'm thinking no violation with the bases empty??

Not a violation with no runners.

In OBR/LL it's definiitely nothing with no runners. In FED, by rule it's a ball, but we're instructed to ignore it, which again, is fine by me.

I was reading the '12 LL rule book today and noticed something. After 8.05(k) it goes on to say...

"In the situations listed above, (I'm assuming they mean 8.05 a through k) in Little league (Majors) or Minor League, it is an illegal pitch even when runner(s) is/are NOT on base."

So, 8.05 (a) in majors, is a BALL even with no runners on base.

[Rich Ives]

Maybe I'm wrong. Our little league has called a ball when bases are empty and a pitch starts and stops his delivery.

OBR

8.05 If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when—

(a) The pitcher, while touching his plate, makes any motion naturally associated with

his pitch and fails to make such delivery;

Little league

8.05 An illegal pitch (a balk in JR, Sr and big league) when a runner or runners are on base when

a. The pitcher, while touching his plate, makes any motion naturally associated with

his pitch and fails to make such delivery;

Reading this, I'm thinking no violation with the bases empty??

Not a violation with no runners.

In OBR/LL it's definiitely nothing with no runners. In FED, by rule it's a ball, but we're instructed to ignore it, which again, is fine by me.

I was reading the '12 LL rule book today and noticed something. After 8.05(k) it goes on to say...

"In the situations listed above, (I'm assuming they mean 8.05 a through k) in Little league (Majors) or Minor League, it is an illegal pitch even when runner(s) is/are NOT on base."

So, 8.05 (a) in majors, is a BALL even with no runners on base.

The note in, not after (k) only applies to (k). And it doesn't matter because they're trying to get a ""ball" anyhow. I don't know why it';s there.

The LL RIM says:

MAJORS/MINOR With no runners on base you only call an illegal pitch if (e) and/or (g) are committed. Otherwise, call nothing with no runners on base at any level of play.

[Richvee]

Interesting. Thanks Rich. Without a copy of the LL RIM, how would anyone know only (e) and (g) should be called with the bases empty?

I thought about where the note was placed in (k), but what threw me was the word SITUATIONS. I would have thought if it only applied to (k) it would read '"IN THIS SITUATION"

I'm guessing the only way to get a copy of the LL RIM is to join the LL umpire registry?

[Rich Ives]

Interesting. Thanks Rich. Without a copy of the LL RIM, how would anyone know only (e) and (g) should be called with the bases empty?

I thought about where the note was placed in (k), but what threw me was the word SITUATIONS. I would have thought if it only applied to (k) it would read '"IN THIS SITUATION"

I'm guessing the only way to get a copy of the LL RIM is to join the LL umpire registry?

Rumor has it that you can google it.

[The Adjudicator]

You can't even get the Little League RIM by joining the registry. You can only get them by attending a clinic or finding a copy on line. I have not been able to find one yet this year.

[Rich Ives]

You can't even get the Little League RIM by joining the registry. You can only get them by attending a clinic or finding a copy on line. I have not been able to find one yet this year.

If you join the resistry you get access to the registry section and the RIM is there. It's a pdf. Open it and then save to file.

A judicius search of google returns might just find one.

[Richvee]

There's a Yahoo group called llumpires.

http://sports.groups...roup/llumpires/

I joined. In there members only area under "files" they have the 2011 LL RIM on PDF. And some other interesting documents.

[mstaylor]

Interesting. Thanks Rich. Without a copy of the LL RIM, how would anyone know only (e) and (g) should be called with the bases empty?

I thought about where the note was placed in (k), but what threw me was the word SITUATIONS. I would have thought if it only applied to (k) it would read '"IN THIS SITUATION"

I'm guessing the only way to get a copy of the LL RIM is to join the LL umpire registry?

E and G are true illegal pitches according to 2.00. When LL added their version of IP in lieu of balks everyone tried to call them with runners or not. Dave Hensley and I led the charge to change that. The original explanation was the new IP were to replace balks, so anything that would normally be a balk should be a ball. I got that interp verbally from AK, then in an email from AK, then I got him to put it in the Fairball as a question before it became accepted that I was right.