Where did the fun go in baseball??? Championship game for not.

[umped up]

3 day tournament, it's Sunday and my final game of 6 for the day. It's the championship game. 14 majors. These two teams have played each other a few times in the past and in this tournament.

Coaches yelling at the players.... " Go, Back, What are you doing, Take another, look at me, now, take another, get your head in the game, what are you thinking, you wanna come out, swing the bat, thats not a quality pitch, get in front of the ball, do you wanna quit now, are you serious, throw the ball will ya, hit the cut and many more.

What ever happend to letting the kids play baseball? These kids are scared of making mistakes that they are making them. They no longer have a mind of their own with the way these coaches are hollering at them and making every move for them. Let them play the game and correct them in the dugout or better yet at practice. Give them the freedom to enjoy the game and learn from THEIR mistakes.

I feel it's more about the coaches and their bragging rights after it's all said and done about who took first place. They go back to work on Monday and brag about his tournament team...

This championship game was filled with testosterone. The home team had four overzealous Italians that hollered over every close call and pitch while the other teams coaches were getting frustrated with their antics.

Let me get to the meat and potatoes here and skip all the other garbage.

I'm in the "A" slot and I hear a parent on the 3rd base side say, " hey watch your language there's kids present ". I took notice but thought nothing of it thinking it was just a player using bad language telling a story or what have you. Then all the sudden I hear, " F U Mother FR, I'll kick your ass "! There was this person in the dugout talking to a fan on their side. I called time and immediately started walking to the dugout along with my partner. At this time he was shouting obscenities to this person and threatning to kick his ass. The coaches were holding him back at this point because he was trying to go outside the dugout to get to him. Apparently, this person said out loud "quit your bitching" and the guy in the dugout thought he called his Mother a bitch. This fan was from the other team and videoing the game. He was told to get back on his side at this time. The person in the dugout was out of uniform and the PU asked for him to leave the dugout. He responded by saying he was a coach. The PU allowed him to stay. (He should have been gone for his language)

After a few minutes of getting this to settle, the very next pitch was high and tight. B1 took 3-4 steps towards F1, I said, " no you don't, get back in the box and at the same time F3 was walking towards B1 and I told him to get back to his position ". There was obviously immense tension in the air.

The next half inning, Im in the "A" slot and after a few pitches the 3rd base coach goes to talk to PU and didn't look happy. I'm not sure what he was talking to him about but I could tell he was displeased about something. He walked back to 3rd base and before the next pitch, he turned around and hollered over to me " hey, I thought he told him to leave the dugout " as he's now walking back towards PU. I started walking to my partner when this person who was out of uniform started yelling back at the coach.

The next thing I notice when I look up is the two opposing coaches are pushing each other and that's all it took for all hell to break loose.

The dugouts cleared, players started charging, fans came onto the field and it was an all out brawl. I noticed a couple of players shoving and I broke that up quickly but that's all I could do at this point. From here I just kept my head on a swivel while watching a lot of shoving and yelling. There were just as many people trying to break it up as there was the ones trying to fight. Without getting in to all the details, the HT coach threw a punch and connected with the VT coaches chin. After about 3-4 minutes we got them seperated. The game was in the TOP of the 7th with the HT up by 7 with one out. We had called the game....

The police were called and lawsuits pending. The police blocked off the entrances so that noone can leave and all statements were taken.

After 3 days of kids playing their butts off and making it to the final game, the winner is..........noone.

Where did all the fun in baseball go??????

[NCAAump2]

The story you just told is the EXACT reason I no longer work any youth ball. People are idiots. That is all.

[Mike Prince]

Where was the tournament director?

[umped up]

Where was the tournament director?

Would you believe............Watching it? :ZZZ:

[sdix00]

There is not enough fighting in baseball. Hockey has it right.

Football embraces the violence.

Even Soccer has it's cheap shots.

I always thought baseball was way too civil. This is more like it.

Said the man with the most protective gear.

[Welpe]

Got to love travel ball.

[Kevin Finnerty]

The glaring mistake was made when that loudmouth wasn't thrown off the property the moment he let loose. He is gone instantly, probably with the police involved right then, as it included a threat of bodily harm. Fourteen and under with F-bombs and MFs and physical threats being tossed around? Are you SH*#ting me? If that guy's not on the sidewalk in 30 seconds, this game is over. Period! And I also take action to guard the safety of the guy that the thug threatened.

I can't imagine letting that outburst go---at any level of play. But it is particularly astounding in a familial setting. Full-on brawl with spectators coming out on the field... absolutely not! I'm sorry, but sometimes when umpires allow something to escalate, it does. This was allowed to happen. The PU in this scenario needs to have a testicle implant procedure.

And when both your asses are on the line, you need to step in and override a gutless partner. That kind of scene can not happen. Crew chief or not, that responsibility must be assumed by someone.

Wow!

[Kevin Finnerty]

Got to love travel ball.

Coaching travel ball, and seeing how generally poor the umpiring truly was, played a large part in convincing me to try umpiring.

[UmpJM]

umped up,

Now that you've had a chance to reflect on the situation, I was wondering if you'd care to give us a self-critique on your and your partner's "game management" endeavors. In retrospect, what would you have done differently?

From your description there were a lot of "red flags" early on that were not properly dealt with, and it would have been surprising if this game HAD NOT turned into a major goat rodeo of some sort.

JM

[umped up]

Got to love travel ball.

Coaching travel ball, and seeing how generally poor the umpiring truly was, played a large part in convincing me to try umpiring.

I couldn't agree with you more. This is one of the issues I left out of this whole post. I was asking myself throughout the game when do I (or can I ) take over the game. He let the arguing go way to long. They were brutalizing him behind the dish (both teams) and he just took it. Occasionally, he would say, " you do your job and let me do mine ". He never gave out a warning to stop questioning his strike zone. Here was an umpire out of his league. He should have never been doing a championship game let alone a 14 yr old game.

When I was talking with the commisoner, he said his organization was partly to blame by scheduling umpires who have no business umpiring at certain levels. This umpire was pretty bad. He had no clue where to be on the field, proper mechanics, attitude, etc.

I told him early after the incident that the hostile coach who was threatning should leave the game. He responded by saying " that he's quiet now ", I just shook my head and went about my business.

I look back on this now and wish I would have just taken matters in my own hand before it got to the point it did. I should have come to his rescue when he allowed all the yelling at him to go on. I feel somewhat responsible. I really don't want to bash on another fellow umpire but he was terrible.

Wow is right!

[umped up]

umped up,

Now that you've had a chance to reflect on the situation, I was wondering if you'd care to give us a self-critique on your and your partner's "game management" endeavors. In retrospect, what would you have done differently?

From your description there were a lot of "red flags" early on that were not properly dealt with, and it would have been surprising if this game HAD NOT turned into a major goat rodeo of some sort.

JM

I look back on this and what I should have done was to have my partners back. He simply allowed both teams to question his zone all game which lead to one of the fans on the visiting dugout to say "stop your bitching", which was misinterpreted with "calling his Mother a bitch". That would never have happend if it was squashed early on. By allowing the "out of uniform coach" to stay in the game after his outburst was a HUGE mistake. He should have been gone right then and there. I will do that differently it anything like that happens again regardless of who the PU is. He was the man in charge so I let it be. MISTAKE on me.

By him staying in the game, it caused the other coach to have words with him which escalated to the brawl. I'm ASHAMED! This did not have to happen. WE allowed this happen. I asked the UIC when and if I should step in and take control and he said definitely take control if my partner is not. I didn't want to step on his toes but look where that got me.

It really sickens me to no end. It should be about the kids man. Those parents and coaches were a horrible example for them. :bang:

[umped up]

Im sure soon enough it will end up on you tube. Supposedly, the whole incident was on video. That will be handy in court.

[dumbdumb]

The glaring mistake was made when that loudmouth wasn't thrown off the property the moment he let loose. He is gone instantly, probably with the police involved right then, as it included a threat of bodily harm. Fourteen and under with F-bombs and MFs and physical threats being tossed around? Are you SH*#ting me? If that guy's not on the sidewalk in 30 seconds, this game is over. Period! And I also take action to guard the safety of the guy that the thug threatened.

I can't imagine letting that outburst go---at any level of play. But it is particularly astounding in a familial setting. Full-on brawl with spectators coming out on the field... absolutely not! I'm sorry, but sometimes when umpires allow something to escalate, it does. This was allowed to happen. The PU in this scenario needs to have a testicle implant procedure.

And when both your asses are on the line, you need to step in and override a gutless partner. That kind of scene can not happen. Crew chief or not, that responsibility must be assumed by someone.

Wow!

As the TD, I would have had him dumped before the umpires could even dump him.

Sounds like another, if you dump you don't get games, areas of the country.

[dumbdumb]

Got to love travel ball.

Coaching travel ball, and seeing how generally poor the umpiring truly was, played a large part in convincing me to try umpiring.

Why do the other sports have generally good officiating and umpiring such poor officiating.

[umped up]

Got to love travel ball.

Coaching travel ball, and seeing how generally poor the umpiring truly was, played a large part in convincing me to try umpiring.

Why do the other sports have generally good officiating and umpiring such poor officiating.

I haven't officiated any other sports but baseball but is it maybe that baseball is so much more complex than the other sports? There is so much to baseball and without proper training (which most don't get) your going to miss a lot of things. I know in my area, a lot of the umpires that I've worked with seem to do it for the money and not care too much about the game itself.

I know of a guy who tells players if they cant afford league fees to help umpire youth baseball and he'll apply the games they do to their fees. Wow! They could do 6 games at $30 per and the $180 will be taken off his fees. Or, he could do all the games necessary to fulfill the total fee to play. Right there you are asking for a disaster. Zero experience and just throw them out there........

I had a post game with my partner and he didn't seem to see where the problem was. I told him that he should have tossed the guy in the dug out but he disagreed claiming that he thought he had him under control. He didn't understand where the problem was. I didn't want to piss him off and tell him his strike zone was garbage, so I said to him I thought the zone was a little inconsistent. He disagreed. He obviously wasn't seeing things that were right in front of him. He missed more things than balls and strikes in that game. He allowed a courtesy runner for an ex catcher until the coach said he couldn't do that. The other coach started spouting that PU already said he could. PU called time and brought me in. (at this time, I didn't realize the switch) I asked PU if the kid on first is the catcher at this point in time? He says no. Cant do it I said. He walks off and says, " my bad coach but he can't have a runner". One of many little things that I didn't bother bringing up.

I asked my partner in the parking lot how many years of umpiring he had under his belt, he says, " quite a few". Hmmmmm. I would guess this was his first but ya never know......

[carolinablue]

I also have an ejection on the batter and pitcher that squared off on each other. 14U. your both gone.

[umped up]

I also have an ejection on the batter and pitcher that squared off on each other. 14U. your both gone.

Im not too sure of that. The pitcher didn't square off, he just threw it up and in. The batter, because of all the hoopla, I assume, took a few steps towards the pitcher but digressed right away when ordered to. 1B also retreated once ordered and the game went on. I don't see where EJ's are warranted there.

[Kevin Finnerty]

He advances toward the pitcher, he's gone. This is 14-U, for crying out loud! You guys let a bunch of kids and their know-nothing dads run your game! I know that you've already admitted that you should have stepped in and taken over the thing, but still, I can't even imagine letting things go to a point that you did, irrespective of whether you were the crew chief.

Don't ever allow a game to get like that. And pick your partner up if he's getting blasted by a bench, no matter how horseSH*# his zone is. Step in. Warn if you need to. If there was any form of game control from the umpires early in that one, there wouldn't have been a bunch of cops putting the ballpark on lockdown.

Your partner had no balls. But you didn't use the ones you brought.

[Kevin Finnerty]

By the way, it's "for naught," or "nought," not "not."

[Jimurray]

" The home team had four overzealous Italians that hollered over every close call and pitch while the other teams coaches were getting frustrated with their antics."

You had a team come from Italy to this tournament?

[carolinablue]

Sorry, misread the OP. I have an ejection on the batter and F3.

[Welpe]

Quality of play or pay has a lot to do with the quality of the officiating. You'll see plenty of questionable officiating in youth basketball and football that don't use trained officials or pay so low it's not worth it for trained offiicials to work it.

Plus there is so much select ball being played in some places that they're practically begging for any warm body to work games.

In my experience, baseball is one of the easier sports to work mechanically and middle of the pack when it comes to rule difficulty.

[NCAAump2]

Agreed. Baseball is a way easier game to officiate than basketball, which I also officiate. Basketball is fast, constant action, with many decisions need to be made in split seconds. It's really not even close.

[scrounge]

I'd second that as well. I actually do football too, hitting all the big three sports. Baseball is much more defined - in this situation I have x, y, and z while my partner has d, e, and f. The possible plays are relatively finite and generally predictable. Football and basketball are much more "watch this area and call everything and anything you see". At least in football there are more eyes out there and anything missed, unless it's absolutely blatant, may go unnoticed. Plus you have time to reconsider and pick up the flag. Basketball is the hardest I'd say, not only lots of possible infractions but a need to instantly call the penalty under fast action. And it's easily the most physically demanding sport to officiate of the three, putting possible fatigue into play not to mention that reading and calling play while on the run is the norm rather than the exception.

Agreed. Baseball is a way easier game to officiate than basketball, which I also officiate. Basketball is fast, constant action, with many decisions need to be made in split seconds. It's really not even close.

[johnnyg08]

Quality of play or pay has a lot to do with the quality of the officiating. You'll see plenty of questionable officiating in youth basketball and football that don't use trained officials or pay so low it's not worth it for trained offiicials to work it.

Plus there is so much select ball being played in some places that they're practically begging for any warm body to work games.

In my experience, baseball is one of the easier sports to work mechanically and middle of the pack when it comes to rule difficulty.

The rules of basketball are, IMO, far easier TOP to bottom than baseball though. The issue w/ baseball is that so many people are clueless about the rules, it is easier to hide somebody who still knows more than the fans, but still not enough.