Lesson learned today

[Hackman61]

So its only my 3rd JV game ever today (3rd in 4 days). First inning, first hitter singles, Next pitch, stealing second, I break out to the left of the mound to get the angle. Ball just beats the runner at second, I'm delaying my call looking for the ball. Shortstop raises his glove, I bang him out. You guessed it, When I turned my back to go back to the plate, he reached down behind the bag and picked up the ball. VC comes roaring out of the dugout. Crap. "You didn't see him? He didn't have the ball!" He's right, but I didn't see that. So I stuck with my call because I truly didn't see him pick it up. Inning ends and I go over to the VC, he's pretty mellow about it and I explained that I guess the shortstop fooled me too, he won't do that again (or me). It ended up a moot point cause his team got waxed 11-1 in 5 innings.

I certainly learned the hard way to make the player "SHOW" me the ball. Dang I felt bad about that. My zone was good today so that helps, but geez I hate that.

[cyclonehokiece]

Wow, one man for JV? Everywhere I have worked (Wisconsin, Iowa, Virginia) requires 2 man minimum for all high school play.

[Hackman61]

Wow, one man for JV? Everywhere I have worked (Wisconsin, Iowa, Virginia) requires 2 man minimum for all high school play.

That's it. We have to be hustling. It hard to get out quick enough and get the angle at 90 ft. bases. But I'm working on it.

[yawetag]

Wow, one man for JV? Everywhere I have worked (Wisconsin, Iowa, Virginia) requires 2 man minimum for all high school play.

Sadly, it's the norm in parts of the country. The worst part is it's generally the least-experienced umpires getting the assignments. While someone like Hackman can probably carry the game well, someone with less rules knowledge can get walked on easily in these situations.

[24sdad]

One man mechanics making a call from over 100 feet away...

-Ball beat the runner - check.

-Tag down - check.

-F6 do anything to convince me R1 is safe (trying to tag him again, etc)? nope - check.

Ok, in your head R1 is out, but make no call.

Some F6/F4 will actually show you the ball, some will immediately begin throwing it around the infield or roll it to pitcher's mound. Some (little bastards) will try and deke you. There is no hurry...wait!

One man long distance calls...I see no problem with asking to see the ball. I prefer, however, to just wait for the fielder to release the ball consistent with whatever action follows the tag play.

-got everything you need? Ok, bang him out.

And do not be so quick to turn your back to the play. Pause a couple seconds watching the action before hustling back to the plate.

You learned this the hard way (which is usually the best way because it will stick with you) and from what I have read from your previous posts, you have a genuine desire to improve. Keep working hard and good luck.

[Kevin Finnerty]

One man mechanics making a call from over 100 feet away...

-Ball beat the runner - check.

-Tag down - check.

-F6 do anything to convince me R1 is safe (trying to tag him again, etc)? nope - check.

Ok, in your head R1 is out, but make no call.

Some F6/F4 will actually show you the ball, some will immediately begin throwing it around the infield or roll it to pitcher's mound. Some (little bastards) will try and deke you. There is no hurry...wait!

One man long distance calls...I see no problem with asking to see the ball. I prefer, however, to just wait for the fielder to release the ball consistent with whatever action follows the tag play.

-got everything you need? Ok, bang him out.

And do not be so quick to turn your back to the play. Pause a couple seconds watching the action before hustling back to the plate.

You learned this the hard way (which is usually the best way because it will stick with you) and from what I have read from your previous posts, you have a genuine desire to improve. Keep working hard and good luck.

Great post. I agree with everything, except never say the words, "Show me the ball." Even in one-man.

[Hackman61]

So Kevin, should I just watch a little longer to see the ball released? Can I ask why would you not say those words? School is in session and I'm listening!

[mstaylor]

Especially in one man, never, ever turn your back to the ball. Either walk backwards to the plate or sideways so you still see the ball. If you wish, as soon as the ball goes to the pitcher, call time. I prefer to not do that but do what works.

One man for JV is BS. Any coach that wants to argue over a steal at second with an one man will have a very short leash.

[grayhawk]

Wow, one man for JV? Everywhere I have worked (Wisconsin, Iowa, Virginia) requires 2 man minimum for all high school play.

Everything below varsity here in Orange County is one man. I don't mind it at all.

[sdix00]

Yep, one man is just fine for JV. Nothing really at stake. Varsity coach dictates who plays, pitches, etc. and does not always field the most competitive team.

I have been amazed how mellow my JV coaches have been. I expect an argument, but all I get is a shrug of the shoulders. The only issue I ever get are noob assistant coaches who don't know what's up quite yet.

On turning your back, I drop step chest to ball and exit the infield at the closest foul line, then head for the 1BLX or 3BLX and put my mask on there. This allows me to keep the bill of my cap turned toward the field of play almost all the time. It also prevents the pitcher from pitching when I am not quite ready.

[yawetag]

Yep, one man is just fine for JV. Nothing really at stake.

Personally, solo games are horrible ways to start umpires, especially when they're new and have very basic knowledge of the game.

[grayhawk]

Yep, one man is just fine for JV. Nothing really at stake.

Personally, solo games are horrible ways to start umpires, especially when they're new and have very basic knowledge of the game.

Unfortunately, the schools are unable to pay $146 for two umpires for JV and below.

[JaxRolo]

Yep, one man is just fine for JV. Nothing really at stake.

Personally, solo games are horrible ways to start umpires, especially when they're new and have very basic knowledge of the game.

Unfortunately, the schools are unable to pay $146 for two umpires for JV and below.

They can negotiate a lower price.

[sdix00]

Yep, one man is just fine for JV. Nothing really at stake.

Personally, solo games are horrible ways to start umpires, especially when they're new and have very basic knowledge of the game.

I don't believe new umpires should be working HS, even JV. There are plenty of places where they can cut their teeth at lower pay rates. These lower pay games will give them plenty of chances to work 1,2,3,4,6 man if they want.

These guys who think it's OK to learn umpiring at the JV level usually end up embarrassing themselves and other umpires who wear the same uniform. They need to learn elsewhere.

[bayoublue]

Unfortunately, the schools are unable to pay $146 for two umpires for JV and below.

I want work where you live!! We get $ 35 a game anything under Varsity. Granted it's an 1.5 hr time limit or 5 innings.

[grayhawk]

Yep, one man is just fine for JV. Nothing really at stake.

Personally, solo games are horrible ways to start umpires, especially when they're new and have very basic knowledge of the game.

I don't believe new umpires should be working HS, even JV. There are plenty of places where they can cut their teeth at lower pay rates. These lower pay games will give them plenty of chances to work 1,2,3,4,6 man if they want.

These guys who think it's OK to learn umpiring at the JV level usually end up embarrassing themselves and other umpires who wear the same uniform. They need to learn elsewhere.

I agree, in general, because that is how I started. Began in LL fall ball, then spring ball, then did the district tournaments, then did some Pony and travel ball stuff, and then did high school. All along the way, I went to every clinic that I could. I feel the progression really helped me at each new level. Never got paid for umpiring until I started working some Pony games. Granted, this may not be the ideal path for everyone, but it has worked well for me and I will be well prepared for working varsity which will hopefully be next season.

[grayhawk]

Unfortunately, the schools are unable to pay $146 for two umpires for JV and below.

I want work where you live!! We get $ 35 a game anything under Varsity. Granted it's an 1.5 hr time limit or 5 innings.

Wow, that's pretty low pay for HS. I get $60 for 10U Pony games. All HS games are $73 whether it be frosh/soph (solo), JV (solo) or Varsity (2 man). In Varsity, each umpire gets $73. Some of the private schools pay for three man crews here.

Rolando, they could try to negotiate a lower rate, but they aren't going to get to less than $73 and since JV and below are essentially glorified scrimmages, why should they care about providing two umpires? It's just the reality of the situation.

[24sdad]

Unfortunately, the schools are unable to pay $146 for two umpires for JV and below.

I want work where you live!! We get $ 35 a game anything under Varsity. Granted it's an 1.5 hr time limit or 5 innings.

Wow, that's pretty low pay for HS. I get $60 for 10U Pony games. All HS games are $73 whether it be frosh/soph (solo), JV (solo) or Varsity (2 man). In Varsity, each umpire gets $73. Some of the private schools pay for three man crews here.

Rolando, they could try to negotiate a lower rate, but they aren't going to get to less than $73 and since JV and below are essentially glorified scrimmages, why should they care about providing two umpires? It's just the reality of the situation.

We got a dollar raise this year in Varsity - $74 for each

I agree with sdix, especially working LL games for those starting out. Cause if there is any chance of a "weird" situation occurring, that is where it will be at. Pretty good training ground actually, as is PONY. Depending upon your location, off season HS leagues are great also. For the most part, everyone is pretty much laid back and gives you a good opportunity to get your feet wet in a more relaxed atmosphere, work on timing/mechanics, etc.

[JaxRolo]

Unfortunately, the schools are unable to pay $146 for two umpires for JV and below.

I want work where you live!! We get $ 35 a game anything under Varsity. Granted it's an 1.5 hr time limit or 5 innings.

Wow, that's pretty low pay for HS. I get $60 for 10U Pony games. All HS games are $73 whether it be frosh/soph (solo), JV (solo) or Varsity (2 man). In Varsity, each umpire gets $73. Some of the private schools pay for three man crews here.

Rolando, they could try to negotiate a lower rate, but they aren't going to get to less than $73 and since JV and below are essentially glorified scrimmages, why should they care about providing two umpires? It's just the reality of the situation.

I am moving to where you are! The most I have gotten payed for a HS game is $68 and that was with milage Money.

I believe we get:

45 for Middle School

50 for JV

and 55 for Varsity.

Plus Milage.

[mstaylor]

I don't understand the thought that JV is not important. To me the only way to build a decent varsity program is with a good JV system. The umpiring system should be handled the same way. Doing one man with an inexperienced umpire does absolutely no good. He learns nothing, the teams get sub par umpiring and it makes a mess of the whole thing. New guys need to learn at middle school and JV. I agree that they should be doing youth ball also. I have taken many guys that do other sports and worked them into baseball officials.

[sdix00]

Unfortunately, the schools are unable to pay $146 for two umpires for JV and below.

I want work where you live!! We get $ 35 a game anything under Varsity. Granted it's an 1.5 hr time limit or 5 innings.

Wow, that's pretty low pay for HS. I get $60 for 10U Pony games. All HS games are $73 whether it be frosh/soph (solo), JV (solo) or Varsity (2 man). In Varsity, each umpire gets $73. Some of the private schools pay for three man crews here.

Rolando, they could try to negotiate a lower rate, but they aren't going to get to less than $73 and since JV and below are essentially glorified scrimmages, why should they care about providing two umpires? It's just the reality of the situation.

I am moving to where you are! The most I have gotten payed for a HS game is $68 and that was with milage Money.

I believe we get:

45 for Middle School

50 for JV

and 55 for Varsity.

Plus Milage.

I drove 27 miles to a game last week and got paid $86 for Varsity. I drove 24 miles and got $74 (no mileage) and then drove 6 miles from work and got $84. When I emailed the AD to kill the extra mileage since I was local, he said don't sweat it because the check was already sitting on his desk. Sometimes it works out.

[detailshp]

Don't know how this morphed into a pay thread but here's my two cents on the play.

One man, if I have to turn my back on the ball ( for example to walk back behind the plate ) I wait till action is over, and call time. I dont want any shenanigans going on while I am not looking. I'm way too old and fat to be trying to continually walk backwards to get back behind the plate.

I don't have a problem asking a kid to show me the ball. You got deke'd by a kid, and in examining how you explained the play to me, it could have happened to any of us. In FED rules, that could have been classified as "unsportsmanlike conduct" if you really wanted to get technical. Sounds like you didnt have anyone freak out on you for the kicked call, and that is good.

I often find myself having a nice firm pre game plate conference with the coaches about what they can expect from a single man umpiring a game. That normally diffuses any BS about missed calls. Sounds like you are hustling and got a good position, so only a real asshat coach would fault you for missing that one.

[grayhawk]

I don't understand the thought that JV is not important. To me the only way to build a decent varsity program is with a good JV system. The umpiring system should be handled the same way. Doing one man with an inexperienced umpire does absolutely no good. He learns nothing, the teams get sub par umpiring and it makes a mess of the whole thing. New guys need to learn at middle school and JV. I agree that they should be doing youth ball also. I have taken many guys that do other sports and worked them into baseball officials.

Mike, I think southern California is a little different. There are SO MANY kids that play baseball here, year round, that there is no problem building a great JV system. Funding is the main problem. At one of the local high schools, there were 125 kids that tried out for the 18 or so slots on the freshman team this year, and all of those kids can play ball! Saying JV isn't important comes from there being no real standings and no playoffs. There ain't no trophies in JV.

[mstaylor]

I understand that there are no records or playoffs but it does not make it scrimmage status. It is important to the guys playing and it helps them get ready for varsity. We have a local school that has no JV and not much of 90ft LL. In their first three games they were out scored 110 to 6. The TOP teams have strong 90ft LLs and strong JV programs. Some of them could take their JV squads and beat some varsity programs.

[24sdad]

I don't understand the thought that JV is not important. To me the only way to build a decent varsity program is with a good JV system. The umpiring system should be handled the same way. Doing one man with an inexperienced umpire does absolutely no good. He learns nothing, the teams get sub par umpiring and it makes a mess of the whole thing. New guys need to learn at middle school and JV. I agree that they should be doing youth ball also. I have taken many guys that do other sports and worked them into baseball officials.

Mike, I think southern California is a little different. There are SO MANY kids that play baseball here, year round, that there is no problem building a great JV system. Funding is the main problem. At one of the local high schools, there were 125 kids that tried out for the 18 or so slots on the freshman team this year, and all of those kids can play ball! Saying JV isn't important comes from there being no real standings and no playoffs. There ain't no trophies in JV.

Grayhawk hits the nail on the head as it relates to So Cal. Lower level coaches work for basically nothing, and more times than not, work alone. It is competitive baseball, but the coaches for the most part are detached and rarely do you ever hear a peep out of em. I would think a quality varsity coach would take a more active role in his lower level teams as they are the his "farm team" so to speak. But since there is no "real" standings kept and no season ending playoffs, a lot do just go through the motions.

And I have done some D1/D2 JV games (alone in So Cal) that would beat a lot of D3 varsity teams.