Out of Baseline 2

[Cajuncubsfan]

Yes another baseline question:

R1 & R3 with no outs. Ball is hit to short, short boots it a little. Picks up ball and checks 3rd. He throws to 1st, close play but I have an out. R3 started to go home but half way down the line he turns back to third. 1st makes a great throw to third and R3 is a dead duck. He runs around the 3rd baseman who is standing in the baseline and swipping at him. I can tell that R3 is way off in the grass in foul ground. I call him "Out", Off. Coach blows his lid. (That's a whole other story). Any way, PU signals to me to come talk to him, Coach is still coming unglued so I tell him I will talk to my partner. I'm thinking he was just trying to save me from a pissed off coach wanting an appeal but he says "How could you see the tag from over there (C position). I told him "I didn't have a tag, I had out of the baseline." he says " 3rd was in the baseline so he had to go around him, did you have a tag?" I say no. He over turns me and then Def. coach comes unglued (As he should). Am I not right to call him out! If a kid has to run around a tag that's an out all day right?

[Replacematt]

The baseline refers to a direct line between a runner and a base at the time a tag attempt is initiated. He can go anywhere within 3' of this line. If he avoids the tag and does not go more than 3' out of this line, he is not out.

Lines on the field or grass have nothing to do with this rule.

[Cajuncubsfan]

The baseline refers to a direct line between a runner and a base at the time a tag attempt is initiated. He can go anywhere within 3' of this line. If he avoids the tag and does not go more than 3' out of this line, he is not out.

Lines on the field or grass have nothing to do with this rule.

I understand the 3' rule and when a person over 5' tall is standing on the line and fully extends his arm and glove to try to tag a runner and still can't touch him he is more than 3' out of the line.

[mstaylor]

First, slap the stuffings out of your partner when you get to the car. He DOES NOT, I repeat DOES NOT have the right to change your call. You could have made the most insane wrong in the history of baseball and he has no right to overturn you. Now if he had called him safe and you called him out, then he has grounds.

Now to the play:

Your partner should have been coming up the line to help you. When you felt he was out of the line, glance at your partner to see if he has it. He is in a better position to see it. If you call it, sell it. "He's Out, He's Out, He's out of the baseline!!!" It's a tough sell from inside but if you are confident, come up big and be proud of it.

Did your partner even try to help on the play or was he nailed to the plate? Sounds like he would never call a runner out of the baseline.

[BretMan]

If you understand how the three-foot baseline rule works and that is truly what you had on this play, then you made the right call. The only thing you can do that might help is to sell that call and make sure everyone knows why you called when you called it. Point at the runner and announce something like, "He's out of the baseline. He's out". I'm going to assume you didn't do this, since your partner was asking you about seeing the tag.

One other thing to think about- Where was the runner prior to F5 receiving the ball? If F5 was in the baseline before he had the ball, the runner could have been deviating out of the way before the actual tag attempt was made. That would be perfectly legal on his part (though you might have had an obstruction issue on the defense). So, the runner could have been several feet out of the baseline before the tag was attempted. He would then have three more feet to deviate from that point.

But let's say that wasn't the case and that you made the call to the best of your ability. WTF is your partner's problem? He "overruled" you? Sorry, he can't do that!

I read a lot of posts where somebody says they'll "never work with that guy again" or even that they would "walk off the field" because of their partner's antics. Usually, I think that is an overreaction. People make mistakes and I guess I'm usually a little more forgiving than that. But if my partner "overrules" a judgment call I made in my area of responsibility...we are going to have a problem!

[yawetag]

One other thing to think about- Where was the runner prior to F5 receiving the ball? If F5 was in the baseline before he had the ball, the runner could have been deviating out of the way before the actual tag attempt was made. That would be perfectly legal on his part (though you might have had an obstruction issue on the defense). So, the runner could have been several feet out of the baseline before the tag was attempted. He would then have three more feet to deviate from that point.

It could also be OBS if you judged the fielder, without possession of the ball, completely prevented the runner from having access to the base.

[Cajuncubsfan]

Ok, after reading yalls posts and thinking over the night. I should have sold it better. My partner was 1/4 up the line getting ready for a pickle play or just didn't have time to get up the line. He was in position to make a call at home (that is his first responsibility) with <acronym title='Base runner at 3B '>R3</acronym>. When the play was made I looked at him and didn't see him moving to make a call so I called it. "Out, I've got an Out!!!" I should have said "Out of the baseline He's OUT!!!" I think that would have salved it or at least helped.

As for my partner, I was very pissed. With me being new to LHSOA group and my partner having 10 + years in HS. I kept my mouth shut. I don't need to make waves. My partner and the problem coach have a reputation and everyone knows what it is.

[mstaylor]

If you are new to a group, the last thing you want is an old dog Smitty stepping on your calls. It is tough enough to build a good reputation.

[grayhawk]

As for my partner, I was very pissed. With me being new to LHSOA group and my partner having 10 + years in HS. I kept my mouth shut. I don't need to make waves. My partner and the problem coach have a reputation and everyone knows what it is.

Sounds more like 1 year of experience repeated 10 times.

[umped up]

One other thing to think about- Where was the runner prior to F5 receiving the ball? If F5 was in the baseline before he had the ball, the runner could have been deviating out of the way before the actual tag attempt was made. That would be perfectly legal on his part (though you might have had an obstruction issue on the defense). So, the runner could have been several feet out of the baseline before the tag was attempted. He would then have three more feet to deviate from that point.

It could also be OBS if you judged the fielder, without possession of the ball, completely prevented the runner from having access to the base.

This may have been covered in an earlier post but must the fielder have the ball or be making a play on the ball for it not to be obstruction?

[Rich Ives]

One other thing to think about- Where was the runner prior to F5 receiving the ball? If F5 was in the baseline before he had the ball, the runner could have been deviating out of the way before the actual tag attempt was made. That would be perfectly legal on his part (though you might have had an obstruction issue on the defense). So, the runner could have been several feet out of the baseline before the tag was attempted. He would then have three more feet to deviate from that point.

It could also be OBS if you judged the fielder, without possession of the ball, completely prevented the runner from having access to the base.

This may have been covered in an earlier post but must the fielder have the ball or be making a play on the ball for it not to be obstruction?

The answer is in the rule book - in rule 2.00 in OBR and LL; in Rule 2 in FED and NCAA.

[zm1283]

One other thing to think about- Where was the runner prior to F5 receiving the ball? If F5 was in the baseline before he had the ball, the runner could have been deviating out of the way before the actual tag attempt was made. That would be perfectly legal on his part (though you might have had an obstruction issue on the defense). So, the runner could have been several feet out of the baseline before the tag was attempted. He would then have three more feet to deviate from that point.

I was on the bases during a HS JV game last night and had almost this exact thing happen. R1 and R3. R1 sprints off, so F1 disengages and gets him in a rundown between first and second. F1 runs R1 back to first base. When R1 was almost to F3, who was about to receive the throw, he changed his path and went around him 3-4 feet toward right field. When F3 caught the ball, R1 was almost directly behind him. F3 turned around and watched R1 go sliding back into first base. Of course the defensive team wanted an out, but R1 didn't go three feet to avoid a tag, because there wasn't a tag in the first place.

[mstaylor]

Sounds like a good call to me.

[umpire78]

Once an infielder has possession of the ball, he has carte blanche to stand ANYWHERE he wants to. If a baserunner tries to go around, chances are good you DO have an "out" for being out of the basePATH. Personally, I call a 'tight' 3 feet but, players are aware of that.

Remember, you can call "safe" all day. But, call "OUT" 'X' amount of times and it's time to go home. :wave:

[yawetag]

Personally, I call a 'tight' 3 feet but, players are aware of that.

I don't know if I've ever called a runner out for going outside the 3-foot allowance.

[johnnyg08]

Personally, I call a 'tight' 3 feet but, players are aware of that.

How do you even know that? There just aren't many of these. Three feet is three feet no?