Odd Situation

[Umpire in Chief]

How can you call it if they fail to do what they are supposed to do. So you punish the batter even though the defense is too lazy to even try and make an attempt on the ball? That is an argument in and of itself.

By calling it you're actually protecting the offense, that's the entire purpose of the IFF, to protect the offense. I know first hand this is a difficult concept to get through to an unhappy coach, but you call it so the defense doesn't get a cheap DP. They are sacrificing the out for the protection should they take it, but they still are able to advance if they dare.

The players doing/ not doing what they are supposed to do is a coaching matter not an umpire/rules matter and therefore out of our jurisdiction until a rule is violated.

[Rich Ives]

Rich are you being intentionally obtuse? Stan is saying call it if the conditions are met, even if the fielders braincramp. Fed says fix it if it isn't called, LL says fix it and I would probably would at most lower level youth. Now if the umpires judge it isn't an IF then there is nothing to fix.

No, I'm not.

Stan said: " . . if the infield fly is in effect, it is the situation calls itself . ."

But in OBR it doesn't call itself. Stan's statement could lead folks astray.

Because it requires that the umpire judge it to be an IFF, it is really FED that is screwed up when they say it's one even if the umpire says it isn't.

[mstaylor]

That's not Fed says, it says that the IF can be enforced even if the umpire failed to call it. That's a world of difference.

[Rich Ives]

That's not Fed says, it says that the IF can be enforced even if the umpire failed to call it. That's a world of difference.

See the case book 7.4.1G

Key words "The situation determines the out, not the declaration".

[mstaylor]

From the Fed casebook:

7.4.1 SITUATION G: With R1 on second and R2 on first and one out, B4 hits a high fly to second base which could have been caught by F4. Neither umpire declares “infield fly.” F4 unintentionally drops the ball but picks it up and tags R2 who is off the base. RULING: The half-inning is over as R2’s out is the third out. The infield fly out for the second out holds even though it was not declared. The situation determines the out, not the declaration. The umpires should always declare “Infield Fly, If Fair” to lessen any confusion.

Unless I am missing something this there to make it so you can fix an IF not called. If you determine it doesn't meet the criteria then it can't be fixed.

[Rich Ives]

From the Fed casebook:

Unless I am missing something this there to make it so you can fix an IF not called. If you determine it doesn't meet the criteria then it can't be fixed.

So it wasn't called when it should have been. Teams should have known and reacted accordingly.

Now try 10.2.3F where it is called when it should not have been and the play stands because "both teams have the responsibility to know when conditions exist for an infield fly"

Same thought - teams have to know even when the umpires screw up.

Dig out your BRD and read "Infield Fly: Umpires Err" (It's item 264 in the 2009 book.) FED is unique in its approach to handling mis-called IFF situations.

[mstaylor]

Don't have a BRD. Carl's site has deemed to not not let me on in the last two years or so. It says I am a member so I can't rejoin and it says my passwords are no good, which I have tried to rectify aand they have done nothing to help, so piss on Carl. I will continue to recommend the BRD because it is very good but personally I am done with him.

[Umpire in Chief]

Did they even put out a 2010 BRD?

[spiritump]

During a Tournament game had a situation where what was thought to be a routine infield fly turned into a mess. Bases Loaded pop up in the infield and neither 1st or 2nd made an attempt so no infield fly. The runner from 3rd comes in and scores and stands there. After being told to go on the run counts the mommy's and daddy's are screaming for him to go back and tag up. So he takes off back to 3rd base. Does his run count or did he void it by going back? Called him out after he got tagged with the ball and didn't let it count for him being crazy and running back after being told to go on to the dugout that his run counts. So the question is can you give up a run?

my question is why did you not call infield fly??????no attemt has to be made.

[kwiggie]

My question is, when is a runner eligable to move on a "tag" when iff is declared? Is it with the declaration of iff or the ball falling to the groundglove?

In fed, if the sit is a iff sit then it is a iff, declared or not. Runner will be restet if they are put out due to an undeclared iff double play.

[yawetag]

My question is, when is a runner eligable to move on a "tag" when iff is declared? Is it with the declaration of iff or the ball falling to the groundglove?

They can leave the base whenever they want.

If they want to do it and not be called out on appeal, they have to wait for the first touch by a defensive player, if it's eventually caught. If the ball is never caught, there's no such thing as "leaving early."

It's easy: IFFs are treated the same as any other fly ball. The only difference is that the batter is out automatically.

[buddywilshire]

It's easy: IFFs are treated the same as any other fly ball. The only difference is that the batter is out automatically.

That is a nice simple way to explain it.