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Force Play/Tag Attempt

carolinablue

By carolinablue
in Umpire Mechanics

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carolinablue

carolinablue

Posted
Posted

I know that on a tag play where there is a missed tag and a missed base, the mechanic is to make no call, and on a force play where the runner beats it and the base is missed the mechanic is to make the safe call and see if there is an appeal, but I had a somewhat unusual play today in a middle school play-off game.

Bases loaded, batter hits ball back to F1 who throws home in plenty of time except that F2 had a brain fart and apparently thought it was a tag play and came up and caught the throw in front of the plate and then set-up for a tag. F3 Slid past the tag but missed the plate. I made the safe call and F2 still tagged the runner who knew he missed the base and was trying to return.

I had no complaints on the call but was wondering if the safe call was the proper mechanic here. The way I was thinking is that it was still a force even though F2 was off the base and trying to make a tag. Therefor I used the safe mechanic.

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carolinablue

carolinablue

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Posted

See if this video helps...make no call wait for a tag or a appeal...

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=5890811

Mazz,

Thanks for the input, but this video is a little different than the OP. In this play it is a normal play where the runner has to be tagged to be put out. In my play the basses were loaded and there was a force in effect. I don't know if that makes a difference but that's why I'm asking.

The way I was looking at it was this : Say the catcher kept his foot on the plate but the runner just beat the throw, but missed the plate. I think the proper mechanic for that would be to call safe and wait for an appeal. I'm not sure if the fact that instead of going for the force the catcher chose to try a tag on the runner changes the mechanics for this call.

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maninblack69

maninblack69

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Posted

The way I was looking at it was this : Say the catcher kept his foot on the plate but the runner just beat the throw, but missed the plate. I think the proper mechanic for that would be to call safe and wait for an appeal. I'm not sure if the fact that instead of going for the force the catcher chose to try a tag on the runner changes the mechanics for this call.

I'm confused. If it's a force play and the catcher has foot on the plate with the ball it would be an out if the runner missed the plate. :BD: Wouldn't matter if the runner beat the ball or not. If the catcher goes for the tag instead I'd have a no call until he either touched the plate (if a force) or tagged the runner. Maybe I'm missing something here :shrug:

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Mike Prince

Mike Prince

Posted
Posted (edited)

In the OP, should be a no-call/no-signal.

If the catcher steps on the plate before a retouch it is an out.

If the runner gets to the dugout without retouching it is an out.

Once you call the runner safe though it is a moot point, it's not an appealable call as far as I know.

Edited by bikerider
worded wrong
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Mr Umpire

Mr Umpire

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Posted

OP, no tag/no call. The fact that it is a force play doesn't change anything. F2 still tried to tag the runner. Same mechanics still apply. Everyone can tell he is not making a force play even though he should be.

Also, if F2 steps on the plate immediately following the play, it is not an out as long as R3 is attempting to touch it still or in the immediate vicinity of it. If R3 goes toward the dugout, then F2 can step on it for an appeal. If R3 is near the plate or trying to get back, F2 has to tag him. It is no longer a force play once R3 went beyond the plate.

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Mike Prince

Mike Prince

Posted
Posted (edited)

OP, no tag/no call. The fact that it is a force play doesn't change anything. F2 still tried to tag the runner. Same mechanics still apply. Everyone can tell he is not making a force play even though he should be.

Also, if F2 steps on the plate immediately following the play, it is not an out as long as R3 is attempting to touch it still or in the immediate vicinity of it. If R3 goes toward the dugout, then F2 can step on it for an appeal. If R3 is near the plate or trying to get back, F2 has to tag him. It is no longer a force play once R3 went beyond the plate.

Hmmm...good to know, thanks!

OBR 7.0.8.(k) for those scoring at home :banghead:

Edited by bikerider
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fbara

fbara

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Also, if F2 steps on the plate immediately following the play, it is not an out as long as R3 is attempting to touch it still or in the immediate vicinity of it. If R3 goes toward the dugout, then F2 can step on it for an appeal. If R3 is near the plate or trying to get back, F2 has to tag him. It is no longer a force play once R3 went beyond the plate.

I'm a little confused by that. Are you saying that, even though R3 didn't touch the plate but slid past it, the force is removed? I do only FED games, would you happen to know the rule number? I wasn't aware of this.

thx.

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catoblue

catoblue

Posted
Posted (edited)

OK, slightly different twist on the same play happened to me tonight...

Bases loaded, batter hits a dribbler back to F1, who throws to F2, who has the same "tag the runner" brain fart... this time he goes up the line and tags R3 as he's doing a pirouette to "attempt to get around", the ball comes out and R3"s spin move ends up causing him to miss HP. Now first we had the tag - dropped ball, I signal safe and point to the ball on the ground, then turn and watch R3's pirouette land one foot before HP, then the other foot beyond HP, at which point I make no call/signal. R3 goes to the dugout, and F2 on direction of his coach steps on HP to appeal the missed touch - I uphold the appeal, calling and signaling out. This is slightly different, in that there was a tag made, that failed when the ball came out up the line about 4 feet and an amount of maybe another second of the runner finishing his spin before missing the plate. Is this right, or did I screw it up?

Edited by catoblue
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Mr Umpire

Mr Umpire

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Posted

OK, slightly different twist on the same play happened to me tonight...

Bases loaded, batter hits a dribbler back to F1, who throws to F2, who has the same "tag the runner" brain fart... this time he goes up the line and tags R3 as he's doing a pirouette to "attempt to get around", the ball comes out and R3"s spin move ends up causing him to miss HP. Now first we had the tag - dropped ball, I signal safe and point to the ball on the ground, then turn and watch R3's pirouette land one foot before HP, then the other foot beyond HP, at which point I make no call/signal. R3 goes to the dugout, and F2 on direction of his coach steps on HP to appeal the missed touch - I uphold the appeal, calling and signaling out. This is slightly different, in that there was a tag made, that failed when the ball came out up the line about 4 feet and an amount of maybe another second of the runner finishing his spin before missing the plate. Is this right, or did I screw it up?

Handled correctly.

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  • 2 weeks later...
24sdad

24sdad

Posted
Posted

It is no longer a force play once R3 went beyond the plate.

Mr. Ump - I am also a little confused by this. Everything I read by the other posters, including 7.08 k and (comment), makes sense, except it appears 7.08 k seems to be talking about a non force situation. i.e. - Runner misses the plate and F2 misses the tag (no call by PU)...now runner needs to be tagged unless he would have to be chased toward the dugout, in which case an appeal by stepping on the plate may be made (paraphrased). I do not see where sliding or running by the plate removes a force if the runner never touched the plate.

Is this in the OBR somewhere or talked about in one of the casebooks? Please point me in the right direction, cause I know this is going to come up sooner or later for me and I want to get it right.

Thanks.

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