F3 or F5 Foot In Foul Territory

[calablue]

Is there a penalty for F3 or F5 not having BOTH feet in fair territory when F1 delivers the pitch to the batter? FED and NCAA both specify that only one foot must be in fair territory but I can find no such clarification in OBR. I see in OBR Rule 4.03a where it is a balk if the catcher is not in the catchers box at the TOP. Does this penalty apply to a fielder for not being in fair territory also? And if it is not a balk, how do you handle the situation when the OC complains about it?

Edited May 7, 2010 by calablue

[Mr Umpire]

First, make sure all fielders other than F2 are in fair territory. If they aren't, tell them to. If they don't, EJ them. Second, no balk. Third, if OC complains, tell him it isn't a balk and tell the fielder to get in fair territory or EJ him.

This would be how to handle it. The ejection part probably won't ever happen. It is just a "Don't do that" in OBR. And, if any part of the foot is touching the line it is in fair territory but both feet have to be in OBR(I believe without a manual here). FED and NCAA, I believe, allow to only have 1 foot in.

And, if the OC insists, explain it to him and move on. If he keeps going, EJ him so he can read the rule book and see there is no penalty for it.

[Mike Prince]

4.03 states "When the ball is put in play at the start of, or during a game, all fielders other than the catcher shall be on fair territory"

I read this that in order to put the ball in play legally everyone but F2 has to be completely in fair ground. I'd call time and let the fielders know we aren't playing until they get out of foul territory. No penalty is specified for the non F2 fielders, if a pitch is delivered with the fielders in foul ground there's no penalty in OBR except to EJ them if they refuse to get in fair.

If the OC complains and I have missed it, that's a good opportunity to remind the DC of the rule. But there's no penalty on the first occurrence.

Edited May 7, 2010 by bikerider
Saw Mr. Umpires response while I was typing

[Dragon29]

First - yes, in OBR fielders (other than F2) must have both feet in Fair territory, so the violation would occur only if one or both feet are completely in Foul territory.

Second - This is not a nit I choose to pick. Unless F3 or F5 is so far into Foul territory as to be horribly obvious about it, I would recommend leaving it alone. In my view, this is 'troubling trouble' and being OOO.

I've worked w/partners who call this regularly and all it does is to increase the overall tension in the game. Unless the OM points it out, leave it alone. If the OM does point it out, enforce it to the letter for both teams.

Just my :2cents:

[calablue]

First, make sure all fielders other than F2 are in fair territory. If they aren't, tell them to. If they don't, EJ them. Second, no balk. Third, if OC complains, tell him it isn't a balk and tell the fielder to get in fair territory or EJ him.

This would be how to handle it. The ejection part probably won't ever happen. It is just a "Don't do that" in OBR. And, if any part of the foot is touching the line it is in fair territory but both feet have to be in OBR(I believe without a manual here). FED and NCAA, I believe, allow to only have 1 foot in.

And, if the OC insists, explain it to him and move on. If he keeps going, EJ him so he can read the rule book and see there is no penalty for it.

Thank you Mr Umpire that was exactly the type answer I was looking for. I never say anything about this unless the OC barks about it, then I tell the offender he must be in fair territory and have yet to ever have a problem with it. But last night after a game one of the other umps was asked about it by a coach and he said it was a balk. I told him I thought there was no penalty for it but that they had to be in fair territory. I told him I'd verify and get back to him. Thanks again :2cents:

[calablue]

First - yes, in OBR fielders (other than F2) must have both feet in Fair territory, so the violation would occur only if one or both feet are completely in Foul territory.

Second - This is not a nit I choose to pick. Unless F3 or F5 is so far into Foul territory as to be horribly obvious about it, I would recommend leaving it alone. In my view, this is 'troubling trouble' and being OOO.

I've worked w/partners who call this regularly and all it does is to increase the overall tension in the game. Unless the OM points it out, leave it alone. If the OM does point it out, enforce it to the letter for both teams.

Just my

I don't nit pik on this. I happen to think it is a ridiculus rule. But It is the rule so I wanted to know the best way to handle it when the OC barks about it(and they do sometimes). I try not to be an OOO but I also try to know all the rules. There's always someone trying to pull a fast one and the only way to keep it fair is to know more than them.:wave:

Edited May 9, 2010 by calablue

[JaxRolo]

I want to know why they would want to be in foul territory!

[1dumbquestion]

I want to know why they would want to be in foul territory!

the guy at the plate hit fly foul balls just out of reach the last 3 AB's

[JaxRolo]

the guy at the plate hit fly foul balls just out of reach the last 3 AB's

They could just stand in fair territory and as the pitcher starts his delivery they can go out in Foul area all they want.

[noumpere]

I want to know why they would want to be in foul territory!

So they can catch the pick-off throw and drop the glove on the runner. It's easier for a RH F3 to do this if he's straddling / behind the bag.

Also, to put an extra player behind on the throw for an appeal so the ball doesn't go out of play. Or, put the player behind F2 in case of a wild pitch on an intentional walk. ...

[calablue]

I want to know why they would want to be in foul territory!

who knows why people do what they do? But I'm sure you've seen a first baseman straddling the bag one foot in fair and one in foul.

[yawetag]

Also, to put an extra player behind on the throw for an appeal so the ball doesn't go out of play.

If a coach is that worried about it, he should have F1 walk to the base for the appeal.

[Rich Ives]

Want a BIG surprise? See the MLBUM

Section 5.2 Point 7)

A fielder may go onto foul territory to back up an appeal play after the ball has been put in play.

[DirtyDawg]

who knows why people do what they do? But I'm sure you've seen a first baseman straddling the bag one foot in fair and one in foul.

I was always taught one foot on the top corner of the bag, one foot on the line. I never straddled the bag.

[catoblue]

Want a BIG surprise? See the MLBUM

Section 5.2 Point 7)

A fielder may go onto foul territory to back up an appeal play after the ball has been put in play.

This makes sense, since the "must be in fair..." rule only specified that the defense must be in fair when the ball is put in play.

I've not seen anything that says the defense (except F2) must be in fair to pitch after the ball has legally been put into play.