Bunted ball hits batter

[Jimurray]

Is the batter not supposed to have both feet out of the box to be considered out of the box?

See 8.4.1B -- if either foot is entirely out of the batter's box, then the batter is out if hit by a fair batted ball.

Blast from the past (I actually used the search functions)....

I read 8.4.1. B the same way as the poster above.

But, I saw a 2015 NFHS Rules Presentation (from the Facebook FED page) that now states differently. A batter who gets hit by his batted ball with one foot in and one foot out of the box is not out. It is a foul ball. 8.4.1B remains in the new book unchanged.

This thread is from 2010, did this rule change before now?

I am confused. I suppose both feet have to be out of the box to get this out.

How can I get the 2015 NFHS Rules Presentation you have noted

It was posted to Jax's FED Facebook Group.

8.4.1 sit B is in the 2015 casebook. Where and who from did this rules presentation come from?

Never mind. On another forum this is generating confusion also. It comes from some NFHS PowerPoint slide. Just use your judgement. Previous FED, no foot touching the ground outside the box. Current FED , who knows what, OBR, both feet have to be in. Your game your judgment.

[goody14]

Makes sense.

 

I guess it is sort of third world anyways.  I was never any good at physics, but it seems like it would be very hard for a batter to be hit by a batted ball with a foot completely on the ground outside the box and not be out.

 

Either he a) already had a foot outside the box when he made contact making him out (unless he can strike the ball with his foot in the air and then get it on the ground in the short time the ball travels from ball to foot - all of this without lifting his back foot).

 

Or b) he runs up on a bunt...in that scenario when the ball hits his front foot, his back foot is probably out of the box meaning he now has no foot in, and FED wants this to be an out.

 

Just feels like they changed for change sake.  On top of that, they did not update their case book.  

 

BRD says to call this like the case play posted above (8.4.1 B) and to call NCAA the same.  With the change, this rule is now potentially different (I don't do college so I could be wrong) in all 3 codes which is super goofy.

 

OBR = Both feet have to be in

NCAA = No foot can be completely out

FED = One foot has to be completely in

[Recontra]

OBR = Both feet have to be in

NCAA = No foot can be completely out

FED = One foot has to be completely in

 

I'm still not positive that's the correct formula, even in OBR (even though I confess I saw a MLB video last season where a batter was called out and his lead foot was in the air and never touched dirt outside the box when his lead leg touched a fair batted ball).

 

 

Here’s a quote from Evans’ Maximizing the Two Umpire System:

 

 "14. Batted Ball Hitting Batter.  There are going to be times when the batter is hit by a batted ball.  The ball may touch him immediately after hitting the bat or it may hit the ground before touching him.  In all cases, the ball is immediately dead when it touches the batter.  He may still be in the batter's box when this occurs or he might have left the box.  The contact may occur in fair territory or it may happen in foul territory.  These are the factors that must be considered in this deceptively simple play.  . . . . . . . . . . . . If the base umpire sees the ball hit the batter while still in the batter's box and no immediate signal is given by the plate umpire, the base umpire should aggressively call "Time!", point at the batter, slap the portion of his body that was hit, and signal the batter back into the batter's box . . . . . . . Even though the batter may be touched by the ball while in a portion of the batter's box that is in fair territory, he is not out.  As long as he is still in the box and does not intentionally interfere, he is not out for "being hit by a fair ball." . . . . . . Rule clarification:  If the batter has either foot on the ground entirely outside the batter's box when the ball touches him, he is considered out of the box."  My question would be:  If the OBR standard is based upon both feet having to be in, why would Evans and Nelson have that bolded Rule clarification?

 

Are there really two standards in FED for (a) a batted ball striking the bat a second time and (b) a batted ball striking the body of the batter/batter-runner?  If not, why the bolded parenthetical in Case 8.4.1 b??  "The batted ball bounces off the plate and hits B1's (a) leg or, (b) bat a second time while B1 is holding the bat in the batter's box (no foot is entirely outside the batter's box)."

 

So is there a definitive answer under NFHS/FED rules?  And is it just an unwritten convention?  Seems kind of surprising that there's a "foul ball" we all call at least once a game, and it ain't even in the rulebook or the casebook.  Where is the rule to be found??  I know Little League has basically adopted OBR rules, but by convention, the batter basically gets a step and a half. In watching NCAA Women's Softball, it seems like there they almost give the batter 2 full steps.

[Rich Ives]

OBR = Both feet have to be in

NCAA = No foot can be completely out

FED = One foot has to be completely in

 

I'm still not positive that's the correct formula, even in OBR (even though I confess I saw a MLB video last season where a batter was called out and his lead foot was in the air and never touched dirt outside the box when his lead leg touched a fair batted ball).

 

 

Here’s a quote from Evans’ Maximizing the Two Umpire System:

 

 "14. Batted Ball Hitting Batter.  There are going to be times when the batter is hit by a batted ball.  The ball may touch him immediately after hitting the bat or it may hit the ground before touching him.  In all cases, the ball is immediately dead when it touches the batter.  He may still be in the batter's box when this occurs or he might have left the box.  The contact may occur in fair territory or it may happen in foul territory.  These are the factors that must be considered in this deceptively simple play.  . . . . . . . . . . . . If the base umpire sees the ball hit the batter while still in the batter's box and no immediate signal is given by the plate umpire, the base umpire should aggressively call "Time!", point at the batter, slap the portion of his body that was hit, and signal the batter back into the batter's box . . . . . . . Even though the batter may be touched by the ball while in a portion of the batter's box that is in fair territory, he is not out.  As long as he is still in the box and does not intentionally interfere, he is not out for "being hit by a fair ball." . . . . . . Rule clarification:  If the batter has either foot on the ground entirely outside the batter's box when the ball touches him, he is considered out of the box."  My question would be:  If the OBR standard is based upon both feet having to be in, why would Evans and Nelson have that bolded Rule clarification?

 

Are there really two standards in FED for (a) a batted ball striking the bat a second time and (b) a batted ball striking the body of the batter/batter-runner?  If not, why the bolded parenthetical in Case 8.4.1 b??  "The batted ball bounces off the plate and hits B1's (a) leg or, (b) bat a second time while B1 is holding the bat in the batter's box (no foot is entirely outside the batter's box)."

 

So is there a definitive answer under NFHS/FED rules?  And is it just an unwritten convention?  Seems kind of surprising that there's a "foul ball" we all call at least once a game, and it ain't even in the rulebook or the casebook.  Where is the rule to be found??  I know Little League has basically adopted OBR rules, but by convention, the batter basically gets a step and a half. In watching NCAA Women's Softball, it seems like there they almost give the batter 2 full steps.

 

OBR just "clarified" the rule last year so older interps are still out there.

[goody14]

So is there a definitive answer under NFHS/FED rules?  And is it just an unwritten convention?  Seems kind of surprising that there's a "foul ball" we all call at least once a game, and it ain't even in the rulebook or the casebook.  Where is the rule to be found??  I know Little League has basically adopted OBR rules, but by convention, the batter basically gets a step and a half. In watching NCAA Women's Softball, it seems like there they almost give the batter 2 full steps.

I would have considered the case play you described as definitive until this powerpoint came out.  It came straight from FED - so while not in the rules, that is pretty definitive.

[Recontra]

I can now confirm (unofficially, of course) that under FED rules, if a batter has one foot on the ground inside the box and one foot on the ground entirely outside the box, and his body unintentionally touches a batted ball, that he's still going to be the batter when the next pitch is thrown.  The parenthetical in FED Case 8.4.1(b) is apparently there just to confuse those charged with knowing and enforcing the rules.

 

I may have possibly taken this year's test twice and may possibly have changed one answer to see what effect it might have on my score. 

[Ironhead17]

This can be a problem if you don't get help from the base umpire in B or C. I would just call it myself w/ no runners on. If batter is anywhere close to the box when the ball hits his bat or his person, I've got a foul ball. One foot in box - he is still in box after putting ball into play.

 

This is a tough call for plate guy w/ RH batter who is beginning to advance. Big brew ha, from a coach a few years ago. Partner was useless.

[johnnyg08]

Foul ball is the safe play here.

[Replacematt]

This can be a problem if you don't get help from the base umpire in B or C. I would just call it myself w/ no runners on. If batter is anywhere close to the box when the ball hits his bat or his person, I've got a foul ball. One foot in box - he is still in box after putting ball into play.

 

This is a tough call for plate guy w/ RH batter who is beginning to advance. Big brew ha, from a coach a few years ago. Partner was useless.

Of course he was. This is PU's call all the way. BU can't help.