good EJ, did I go too far, or did I let it go too far

[dleavitt39]

Ok, let me preface this with this: The coach in question has been known throughout the league as being a hothead, and what happened this day was his 9th and 10th EJ of the season. Next, I know this situation happened last year, but want some other opinions before heading into the next season on what to do if this situation happens again...no matter how improbable it is.

Ok, here goes. Semi-finals and Championship of the local travel league last year. Semi final game, Team A is walloping Team B by 15. HC A brings in one of his "he can't pitch for SH*#, so good luck" sort of pitchers. It starts getting ugly, 7 walks and 3 hit batters later, and Team A is only up by 4. HC A brings in his "stud" pitcher. This guy must be having an off day, b/c he can't get a pitch within 6 inches of the plate. But of course HC A decides to start yapping. "hey blue, where was that pitch", my response "in the dirt". next pitch comes in at they eyes. "blue, where was that", i say "at the eyes". Next pitch is about a foot outside. "blue, where was that" me:"coach, i'm not doing this, that's enough." start tirade A: "What do you mean you're not doing this! This is an all-star team, they know how to hit their spots, so you BEST tell me where they are missing!" me:"coach, the only thing that BEST happen is you walk back to your bench and we continue the game, and if your team is such an all-star team, why don't you ask your catcher where it missed. I've been letting him know all game, and he hasn't questioned me once." coach responds:"you don't tell me what to do, you punk ass 18 Y.O.(about the only thing he managed to get right on the day). me: coach:" you don't have a clue what you're doing out here. You better get off this field and go read your rule book so I don't have to do your job." Here's where it gets a bit out of hand. Me seeing that this is going to spiral out of control quickly, inform the coach "coach, as you should know the league rules, you have 1 minute to vacate the field or your team will forfeit." Coach turns around and starts walking, gets to his dugout, and turns back to me "hey, here ya go(he throws a rule book at me), read up on these before you even think of doing one of my games again. He starts to leave, no sooner than he leaves the dugout does the AC, now HC, come out to talk to me. He asks what that was all about, I tell him "Well, he wanted to be a smart ass and lose his temper" AC " he lost his temper? Are you kidding me!!!(while poking me square in the center of my CP), you think you were any better!!! me:bye coach He knows he screwed up, apologizes and said he deserved it and then promptly left the field. Game goes on, this team wins the game, and moves to the championship game. Unfortunately, there is no rule saying an EJ'd coach can't return/is suspended for 1 game etc..and in all my infinite wisdom, I assigned the tournament, and assigned myself to the championship game here's where it gets fun Between games, I talked with the director of the tournament, and we disused how the championship game would proceed, and if he wanted me off the game. He said no, do it like any regular game, and if he gives you any trouble, don't hesitate to give 'em the hook, he's been a pain in the ass all season, and this'll just help our cause to kick him out of the league...Now that being put in my head, I "accidentally" filed that little thing in the back of my head...So I walk out onto the field in my plate gear, partner to my side, and call for HC's...here comes HC from semi-final game. Get's to the plate, takes the time to look up from his clipboard of scouting, looks at me, and says "no way in hell is this happening again. DIRECTOR!!!" I remember my conversation with director, and tell HC "don't waste your breath, I already talked with him and the game is going on as planned" HC:"like hell it is, get YOUR punk ass off of MY field(his team happens to be be located the furthest away from said field). I give the coach the wave and as he walks I take out his rulebooks and say "coach, I think you forgot these last game" he turns around, looks at the rule books laying on the ground and storms up to me "you you can't do this to me, you can't EJ me this is the Championship game!!! I say "coach, remember the rules, I'll end this game before it starts if you want...remember the rules he turns and goes...due to rain, game gets put on hold til following day...after postponing the game and recording all of the information, I talk with the director, he gave me a big thank you for being the first ump to have a pair and not back down from HC(this coach is 6'7 375, and I'm 6;0 220). So the next day comes around, at the field, and what do you know, HC is sitting in the dugout, I go talk with the director, he says "we're allowing him in the dugout until game time, then he's going to go sit on the park bench 550 feet away." I tell him w/e it's his tournament, and that we're going to get started. First play of the (continued)game, a fly ball to F8, runner on 3rd, 1 out. He waits to tag up, and goes when the ball get's the F8's eye level which is where his glove was. Unfortunately what the player missed was that F8 lost the ball in the sun and lowered his glove to make a basket catch. I see this, sure, it's a split second difference, but in that second, R3 leaves the base before the ball is caught. Ball gets thrown in, pitcher gets it, and is getting ready to throw, and all of a sudden the HC of the fielding team calls for time, and asks to appeal the play at 3rd. I call the runner out, and here we go again, round 2: 3rd base coach comes sprinting down to me, so fast he loses control of himself and plows into me. He goes down, I stumble back into the fence...there goes that coach but not before he gets his words in. While he's yelling at me, 1st base coach starts hassling my partner about how terrible I am, and how he(my partner) should EJ me for being so bad. Partner gives 1st BC the hook There's a Grandma on the fence shaking the fence yelling about how awful we are, which gives me pause and causes me to start laughing uncontrollably. Here comes the 3rd AC from the dugout " what the hell is so funny you by the time we're done here, you're gonna be sorry you showed up he gets the hook I turn to my partner, to catch out the corner of my eye the original HC that I EJ'd the night before sprinting towards my partner from RF, pair of binoculars in hand, screaming about how we're throwing the game. He's already EJ'd, their out of coaches, so I declare the Championship game a forfeit. He loses it, throws his binoculars down and takes off at my partner with a rage in his eyes I'd never seen. Director stepped in between just in time (he happened to be the assistant chief of police in the town we were in), tackled the coach and he's in handcuffs. Now I couldn't just leave it at that, so as me and my partner pack up, we amble by coach in cuffs, and I have to get the last shot in, so I say "coach, what exactly was your plan when you started running out here..to tell me your view from 550 feet away through a pair of POS binoculars was better than my view from 20 feet away? ya, great plan there bud" With that we walked out.

Now I know I may not have excercised the best discretion there, but given the situation, did I cause things to get blown out of proportion? Is there something I could have done to minimize what happened, or were these all good EJ's?

On a side note, no charges filed against any of the coaches, but this team got kicked out of the league...and for all of those wondering what age group could possibly get this kind of reaction from coaches? It was 10u travel

Thanks for listening, and sorry about the essay, but wanted to get everything out there.

NOTE NOTE NOTE NOTE: Guys, I just want to apologize now. This is what happens when you use the same password for every log in. My emails, facebook, and now I find this forum, along with a few others was "hacked" by someone. I've never had this situation on a field before. But I will say this. If I ever had this situation come up, I'd NEVER act in such an unprofessional manner. Again, I'm sorry for this happening, and making me look like an ass. My passwords are changed, and hope this won't happen again, and also hope this won't affect how I'm perceived around here. I really am a good guy with good morals and am NOT an ass on the field.

I'll leave the original post up, so it can serve as teaching material for anyone who wants to find out the bad way to handle things, but again, i did NOT do any of what was said above.

UPDATE: Roommate played sick april fools joke, changed passwords and posted something crazy to every forum i belong to.

Thanks,

Dan

Edited April 5, 2010 by dleavitt39

[Guest]

Your five days late on your April Fool's joke.

[Big Red]

Your five days late on your April Fool's joke.

Criminy's sake...second that motion!!!

Dleavitt, w/ all due respect, puh-leeze say it ain't so!

If so, you're gonna get all kinds of "help" here!

[kcfan102]

:wow:

... oh good heavens.

If I were you I'd delete that post and read over it yourself before asking advice.

[Umpire in Chief]

IMO you were too mouthy back to the coaches. As an umpire you are the professional.

me:"coach, the only thing that BEST happen is you walk back to your bench and we continue the game, and if your team is such an all-star team, why don't you ask your catcher where it missed. I've been letting him know all game, and he hasn't questioned me once."

Not needed, way too much dialogue, insulting to his team and confrontational.

I give the coach the wave and as he walks I take out his rulebooks and say "coach, I think you forgot these last game" he turns around, looks at the rule books laying on the ground and storms up to me

Why would you bring his rule book other than to have a confrontation???

I have to get the last shot in, so I say "coach, what exactly was your plan when you started running out here..to tell me your view from 550 feet away through a pair of POS binoculars was better than my view from 20 feet away? ya, great plan there bud"

Not a smart move... What was gained here?

I know there are a lot of stories here and elsewhere where there are these great dialogues between the ump and the coach, and don't get me wrong I've had my own, but no matter how much of an ass the coach is we are the professionals our there and when we stop down to their level we look bad not them.

Just take care of business and if it involves an EJ then so be it. But don't get too chatty w/ coaches.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Limit words. Brevity good; clever blathering bad.

...

[Mr Umpire]

Sorry, but the whole thing was out of control.

One thing, were you saying all of this to him where others could hear you? First mistake. Always treat them like an adult until they prove otherwise. Even then, just get rid of them and let them know about the league rule if necessary. But, if he is leaving, then don't say another word. Don't yell at them when they are yelling at you if you can control it. I put the other part b/c I have a hard time controlling it, especially if I have one essentially calling me an idiot which I had the other night. I tend to get a little upset so I don't hold that part against anyone when dealing with a moron like this.

Second, don't be a smarta$$. The rule book thing was too much. All that should have been done is pick it up and hand it to an AC. If he says anything smart about it, inform him that he just got a warning. Anyone with any sense will realize how stupid he just looked and won't think twice about it. But, if you have something smart to say or do, then all of that is forgotten and you are the bad guy.

Third, try not to listen to fans or at least, get better at hiding your response to it. I know it can be hard to control laughing at something funny but try to. They didn't realize you weren't laughing at them but they thought you were. Just try to hide it better or something. It is very infuriating to some.

Last, don't antagonize someone. The director had him. Just stay away if you can't resist some snide remark. Again, don't be a smarta$$.

I realize this is probably an age thing and will change with time. At least, I hope it will. I have made my remarks when I was younger as well. I have learned to think them and not say them more and more each day I deal with morons like this.

Just take it as a learning experience and move on. I know many will come on here and just rip your post apart. All I want to do is show you what you shouldn't have done and hope you learn from it.

Above all, be professional and not a smarta$$. That is why the AC acted the way he did and this fan acted the way she did. It might even be part of why the HC acted like he did at the end (Maybe not, but who knows). The EJ of the AC in the first was your fault b/c you were laughing and being a smarta$$. He just pointed it out like I am but you can't EJ me.

Just learn from it and try cut down on the smart remarks until you have eliminated them all. Keep umpiring and learning from each experience/mistake. I do.

[Stan W.]

Gosh there is just so much wrong here....I really dont know where to start.....

so agreed the coach is a Jerk and he needed to go...... but dont ever bring in any prevoius game experience.....file away any info from partners as to jerk tendencies, but dont put your self on point with it. As you can see from your post, the interactions between umpire and coach can be the catalyst......

An ejection for the first interaction was valid....arguing balls and strikes......direct abuse of an umpire and profanity......

You baited him several times....and you caught what you were fishing for..... a S%$&storm.....

take Kevins advice, be brief.....pull the trigger then move on....

[mstaylor]

First and foremost you have to remember you are the arbiter of the game and as such you have to be above repoach. In any argument you have to take the moral high road. A samrt remark is OK but you have to remember when and where to use them. In you semi the coach starts sniping about pitches, when you decide to shut him down try,"Coach, that's enough, you know you can't argue balls and strikes." I never liked the,"We are doing this today" method, it seems to inflame. When he told you best tell him where they are missing, simply replay that the only thing that is going to happen is he is going to the dugout or coach's box. Now the second coach was on of line on the finger poke but he was right, you were out of line with your comments too. If you take the high road and don't snipe back then he looks to idiot.

It was good you had the conversation with the TD so you know he has your back. When the second game starts and the coach yells for TD, hopefully you were close and not yelling across the infield. If you are confident that the TD won't fold then let him call and get confirmation that you aren't leaving. If you decide to handle it yourself, tell him you already have had this discussion and this is the crew. When he loses his mind, and he will, dump him again. If he continues then tell him if he wants the game to happen he has to leave. The whole rulebook thing was so far out of line I won't comment further. The rest of the ejections were perfect, what was unfortunate was your laughing at the grandmother. While funny you have to control that because it caused another ejection. Now what he did certainly deserves the EJ, it was caused by you losing it. The coach coming in after your partner is a VERY,VERY serious thing and luckily the TD was also a police officer. Throwing barbs after he is controlled is also way out of line. It's like suckerpunching a kid after the teacher has him wrapped up.

I can't say this enough, that the highroad whenever possible. NEVER,EVER lower yourself to the level of an out of control coach. It's like arguing with a drunk, it doesn't work. Be calm and in control, but still be firm. This doesn't mean you are always in a Zen state. There are times that you have to raise your voice and never be afraid to be firm, but never snipe and never get out of control.

I have worked for years doing security in bars and concert venues and I will try to nice people first then get firmer as warrented. I ahve ahd many physical altercations with drunks that simply wouldn't listen or flat wanted to throw first but the secret is to stay in control and make them look the idiot. Their friends will back him down because he looks the one out of control. The same is true on the field. I have had many ejections, I have had many discussions that could have gotten out of control but didn't because of being the level headed one. I have even been in your shoes and kicked the wheels out of a final game that lead to a national berth.

The last thing is to remember that because you are young you have to be more in contolr than somebody that's been around. No matter how good you are, you will automaticly be a target because of your age. I know, I started as a teenager and had those altercations. I learned quickly how to handle hotheaded adults.

Good luck this year and take what happened and learn from it. game management is the hardest thing to learn becuase it depends on so many things, age, physical size, years experience, how much you wish to actually learn, the age of the participants, experience level of coaches, and many more variables I haven't even thought about. Every umpire has to learn his line in the sand and how to handle things on each side of that line.

Edited April 5, 2010 by mstaylor

[mstaylor]

Limit words. Brevity good; clever blathering bad.

...

While several of us gave some excellent advice, Kevin's says it all. I love it. I have a friend in Texas that says you should be able to explain yourself in five words or less, Kevin is real close. Good job!

Warren:

Where is the nominate button, I was going to nominate this post, it's that good.

[catoblue]

In a word... WOW! I think that all EJ's would ahve been good EJ's, had you done what the rest of the gang said, and not allowed yourself to get pulled down to the rat level.

As said, the key here is that you are athe trained "professional" who knows the rules and is there as an impartial arbiter.

"That's enough!", with the hand up is is the line in the sand. HC crosses it, you simply say "you are ejected, please leave the field". That's all the words that needed to be spoken by you, and may have eliminated some, or all of the additional EJ's.

Responding "in kind" to HC's tirade simply throws fuel on the fire, and gets a nasty chain of events started. You're young and learning, and hopefully, if you've learned anything from this experience, it is that, as an umpire, you never want to allow yourself to be dragged into stooping to the level of a angry coach.

[BrianC14]

Leavitt,

Just out of curiousity, is this league located in Kabul?

It sure sounds like a war zone.... :wow:

[NovaScotiaBlue]

"All of a sudden the HC of the fielding team calls for time, and asks to appeal the play at 3rd. I call the runner out, and here we go again, round 2"

Just another small point. How can you rule on an appeal when time is called:shrug::wow:

[dleavitt39]

Guys, I just want to apologize now. This is what happens when you use the same password for every log in. My emails, facebook, and now I find this forum, along with a few others was "hacked" by someone. I've never had this situation on a field before. But I will say this. If I ever had this situation come up, I'd NEVER act in such an unprofessional manner. Again, I'm sorry for this happening, and making me look like an ass. My passwords are changed, and hope this won't happen again, and also hope this won't affect how I'm perceived around here. I really am a good guy with good morals and am NOT an ass on the field.

I'll leave it up to management for whether they want to delete this thread or not.

Thanks,

Dan

[mstaylor]

I say leave the post because there are some excellent pieces of advice but I would go in and put your hacked caveat on the original post.

[BrianC14]

Guys, I just want to apologize now. This is what happens when you use the same password for every log in. My emails, facebook, and now I find this forum, along with a few others was "hacked" by someone. I've never had this situation on a field before. But I will say this. If I ever had this situation come up, I'd NEVER act in such an unprofessional manner. Again, I'm sorry for this happening, and making me look like an ass. My passwords are changed, and hope this won't happen again, and also hope this won't affect how I'm perceived around here. I really am a good guy with good morals and am NOT an ass on the field.

I'll leave it up to management for whether they want to delete this thread or not.

Thanks,

Dan

Somebody "hacked" your account... and took the time to write all of that ?

Must be a new breed of pirate/umpire. :censored:

[dleavitt39]

Somebody "hacked" your account... and took the time to write all of that ?

Must be a new breed of pirate/umpire.

It was one of my "buddies" from school playing a late, sick April fools joke on me because I just got back to school(was home for Easter holiday). I did the same thing to him (changed his passwords) last year, so this is his way at getting back at me. I've told him some of my umpiring stories, he just took all of them, put them together and embellished the hell out of them. He posted crazy stories in all of my forums, here, aviation ones, etc.......I'm open to ideas for revenge.

Dan

[BrianC14]

It was one of my "buddies" from school playing a late, sick April fools joke on me because I just got back to school(was home for Easter holiday). I did the same thing to him (changed his passwords) last year, so this is his way at getting back at me. I've told him some of my umpiring stories, he just took all of them, put them together and embellished the hell out of them. He posted crazy stories in all of my forums, here, aviation ones, etc.......I'm open to ideas for revenge.

Dan

Well, your buddy from school is evil.

I like this guy... :censored:

[Big Red]

Well, your buddy from school is evil.

I like this guy...

X2 Brian!!!

I realize all of this is more appropriate for "Off-Topic" or "Free for All", but...

Did you hear what the hell DLeavitt39 did???

:Horse::Horse::Horse::Horse::Horse::Horse:

Dan,

Check out the following website for some ideas:

http://www.aprilfoolzone.com/unique.htm

Having been in the Corps of Cadets at A&M, a cop and now in the military, I have seen and/or done possibly every prank/gag that could be played on someone...some respectable, many just downright sick!

I'd be glad to give you some real "jewels" but always keep one thing in mind that goes along with the old "tracers work in both directions" thinking when you get two guys messin' w/ each other and it's not singular: payback is a b_tch! :BD:

[Guest]

It was one of my "buddies" from school playing a late, sick April fools joke on me because I just got back to school(was home for Easter holiday). I did the same thing to him (changed his passwords) last year, so this is his way at getting back at me. I've told him some of my umpiring stories, he just took all of them, put them together and embellished the hell out of them. He posted crazy stories in all of my forums, here, aviation ones, etc.......I'm open to ideas for revenge.

Dan

See post #2. I called it.

[Stan W.]

Gosh there is just so much wrong here....I really dont know where to start.....

so agreed the coach is a Jerk and he needed to go...... but dont ever bring in any prevoius game experience.....file away any info from partners as to jerk tendencies, but dont put your self on point with it. As you can see from your post, the interactions between umpire and coach can be the catalyst......

An ejection for the first interaction was valid....arguing balls and strikes......direct abuse of an umpire and profanity......

You baited him several times....and you caught what you were fishing for..... a S%$&storm.....

take Kevins advice, be brief.....pull the trigger then move on....

ok, so Ive read the explanation..........and it smells fishy..........but we will see...:notworthy:

[BrianC14]

ok, so Ive read the explanation..........and it smells fishy..........but we will see...

Still wondering that, too....

Whatever, I guess.

[dleavitt39]

Still wondering that, too....

Whatever, I guess.

Take it for what it's worth. I honestly don't care at this point. I have better things to do than be questioned on a forum. I told you guys the story of what happened, that's that.

Dan

[alcrisp]

Well IMHO you let it get to far. As soon as the coach came out of the dugout and you told him the conversation was done ans you weren't talking balls and strikes, if he did not walk away, chuck him.

He should have definitely been EJ when he called you a profanity. But you should not have infused the confrontation with comments like "read your rulesbook," etc.

To stop the chirping about B/S if F2 isnt complaining is ask F2 if there is anything wrong on those close pitches (he will say no) and then ask him why he is letting his coach eat you up about it. I guarantee you the catcher will take care of his coach in between innings and you won't hear a word rest of the game. Remember too, call pitches, don't explain them.

I too am a young umpire (22) and am used to the comments about my age, especially when I work college games. Get used to it, it's a fact of life and embrace the they hand you of umpiring at a young age...I do!

[alcrisp]

my bad about commenting on what you shouldnt have said if you didnt say. Good to hear about other young umpires who love this advocation as much as I do!