Runner Touch Foul Ball

[haden98]

I had this happen last night. Runner on third, batter hits foul ball down the third baseline. The ball was going to be clearly foul, the runner picks up the ball and then throws it back to the pitcher. I called the runner out.

To follow up second guessing my decesion, the LL rulebook mentions fair ball touched by runner before infielder is out.

Two questions for everyone.

1.)Is the pitcher considered an infielder?

2.) Is runner out for touching foul ball before ball has passed first or third?

[mstaylor]

Question one:

The pitcher is not considered an infielder in this case.

Question two:

He should not be called out unless he is keeping a foul ball from becoming fair.

Welcome to the site, keep reading and asking questions.

[calablue]

Sound like a HTBT situation on whether to call him out for interference. If the ball was rolling down the third base line I think he would have to be called out because even if he thinks it is a foul ball it could still become fair. Spin on the ball, hitting a small rock, or even an unlevel spot in the ground could cause the ball to turn into fair territory.:banghead:

Edited April 3, 2010 by calablue

[JaxRolo]

Sound like a HTBT situation on whether to call him out for interference. If the ball was rolling down the third base line I think he would have to be called out because even if he thinks it is a foul ball it could still become fair. Spin on the ball, hitting a small rock, or even an unlevel spot in the ground could cause the ball to turn into fair territory.

+1 I tend to agree.

I had one last fall where the ball was rolling foul about 10 feet off the baseline. About halfway to 3rd before the ball stopped I call "FOUL" Bad call!!!

I am not sure what happened but the ball starts to turn in towards the infield. When the ball reaches 3rd base it hits the side of the bag. Yikes is a fair ball!!

I just stood there waiting for a riot. F5 pick up the ball tosses it to F1 and we play on.

No one said a word. I was happy. but I blew it. I was a bit premature.

[mstaylor]

You have to judge if you think it had a chance of going fair. Obviously there is always a chance of it hitting a clump or hole and come back but in most cases it is obvious. For you to calll it it has to be obvious that is has a good chance of going fair.

[catoblue]

I had this happen last night. Runner on third, batter hits foul ball down the third baseline. The ball was going to be clearly foul, the runner picks up the ball and then throws it back to the pitcher. I called the runner out.

To follow up second guessing my decesion, the LL rulebook mentions fair ball touched by runner before infielder is out.

Two questions for everyone.

1.)Is the pitcher considered an infielder?

2.) Is runner out for touching foul ball before ball has passed first or third?

I guess another piece of information is whether the call of "FOUL!" had been made before R3 picked up the ball - that makes a huge difference, but even without that, it's definitely a HTBT sitch. Judgement on the possibility of the ball becoming fair is the key. If there's no freaking way the ball will become fair, then I'm not calling R3 out - he's actually doing me a favor and keeping the game moving along by getting the ball back to F1 quickly.

[softballcoach]

Wouldn't it also matter if the runner was standing in foul territory?

[DirtyDawg]

I'm not big into LL rules, but I'm not sure you could call the batter out for this. Let's say the ball is hit towards the third base bag, the runner is standing in foul territory, and a ball hit up the line hits him. Do we then call him out for interference, stating that the ball has a chance to go fair? No, instead we rule it a "foul" ball. What makes this any more different than if he catches the ball in foul territory. Coaches do it all the time. Should we then restrict them to the dugout because they interfered in the game?

[mstaylor]

Wouldn't it also matter if the runner was standing in foul territory?

No, if the ball is in foul it doesn't matter where the runner is. The only thing you have figure is if you think the ball had a shot of going fair. Translate that to actually rolling toward the line.

[catoblue]

Wouldn't it also matter if the runner was standing in foul territory?

If the runner is in foul territory, he's protected for the most part. The situation where he wouldn't be, is that dribbler down the line, where the ball could end up being fair or foul. As for a batted ball hitting a runner on the base, the runner is protected if the ball hits him in foul territory, regardless of passing an infielder. If it hits him in fair territory, then the passing an infielder rule applies and he's out (except on IFF)

Once the ball has been called FOUL! by the umpire, the runner is protected no matter what, since the ball is dead and no outs can be made until the ball is properly put back into play.

[dleavitt39]

As for a batted ball hitting a runner on the base, the runner is protected if the ball hits him in foul territory, regardless of passing an infielder. If it hits him in fair territory, then the passing an infielder rule applies and he's out (except on IFF)

Isn't runner still protected no matter fair or foul because he's standing ON the base :clap:

[Mr Umpire]

Isn't runner still protected no matter fair or foul because he's standing ON the base

No. That only applies to an IF. If the IFR is not determined, then the runner has to avoid being touched by any fair batted ball if not deflected or immediately behind an infielder.

This is for OBR. Not sure what FED or NCAA has.

[Big Red]

Shouldn't this thread be moved to "Situations" or "Rules?"

[Umpire in Chief]

Shouldn't this thread be moved to "Situations" or "Rules?"

Good catch...

Mooving to Situations.

[dleavitt39]

No. That only applies to an IF. If the IFR is not determined, then the runner has to avoid being touched by any fair batted ball if not deflected or immediately behind an infielder.

This is for OBR. Not sure what FED or NCAA has.

OK. All my leagues go by FED if anyone has an interp on fed would be greatly appreciated, b/c I've called it a few times, the guy is standing on 2b or 3b, ball bounces, and gets him, but i've had him safe b/c of being on the bag.

Thanks,

Dan

[UmpJM]

Dan,

See 8-4-2k. The base only provides a "safe haven" from a fair batted ball that has been ruled an IFF, as Mr Umpire suggested.

JM

[dleavitt39]

Dan,

See 8-4-2k. The base only provides a "safe haven" from a fair batted ball that has been ruled an IFF, as Mr Umpire suggested.

JM

great, i guess i never came across it. Thanks!!!

DL

[catoblue]

Dan,

See 8-4-2k. The base only provides a "safe haven" from a fair batted ball that has been ruled an IFF, as Mr Umpire suggested.

JM

That makes it the same across all rule sets. OBR and LL only provide the safe-haven on IFF and after passing or deflected by a fielder.