Internet Umpire discussion Forums are they dying

[PeteBooth]

Hi all:

if you visit some internet umpire discussion Forums ie: eteamz; The official Forum and Umpire.org you will notice how Slooow things are.

Routine type threads turn into marathons because there really is not that much action even in the off season.

At one time most if not all the umpire internet discussion Forums "buzzed" even in the off season. Now things are real quiet.

IMO, here are some of the reasons.

1. The "old timers" ie; Carl Childress et el do not post anymore. It seemed anytime that Carl was involved in a thread it had some "juice" in it.

2. Perhaps there are private Forums where a group of posters who used to post quite frequently have resided hence you do not hear much of them anymore.

3. Could be job / health related

4. There really is not that much to discuss anymore. I mean how many times can you discuss the concept of "last time by" etc.

5. Today's poster is simply too sensitive compared to the poster of "back in the day"

Those are just a few. What's your thought and do you think the umpire internet discussion Forums will start to fold.

Hey it's a Friday and as I stated things are slow so what the heck

Pete Booth

[Mr Umpire]

I don't believe they will begin to fold or anything.

Things are slow. Not enough are doing games with some kind of play to discuss. Interest is even lost by many for the pro games b/c their team is out of any playoff chances.

I'm sure it is just that time of year and as you mentioned, how many times can a concept be discussed? Especially, if a resolution in which all agree upon is reached.

More will come up and also, when spring comes again, so does the new recruits with their questions of "this happened and what should I have done".

And, I believe that there are many "old timer" posters for now. Meaning, those who have been through many of the discussions and choose not to post in the new ones. Many of these "old timers" are also quick to put in a cheap shot remark or attempt to make the poster feel foolish.

Or, the ones who just lurk around do not feel comfortable with posting their unusual situation or even a usual situation. They would rather stumble on the answer rather than post it for an answer due to so many sites having "sharks lurking in the water". Umpire.org and officiating.com are a couple of them. They don't want to be attacked even if it is on a computer.

These are some of the reasons in which I believe there are not as many postings being done.

[jjb]

I don't think it's dying, so much as it's hibernating. To be sure, some forums' problems are self-inflicted (eteams has become a "come to my tournament in Moose Nipples Maine" board, and too many other forums are of the "if you umpire LL, you're not a Real Umpire, so your question's not relevant anyway" ilk). These issues simply drive away Umpires who have questions about Rules, Game Management, Equipment and other topics, and they come here. Kudos to Warren for patrolling his site and keeping this one in the basepath: he seems to know (1) where we are and (2) where we're going.

Fall Ball's starting (as soon as it stops raining), and things should pick up for a while, and then morph into a Christmas wish List. In the meantime, I'll just hide in my office and try and stay out of my wife's way.

[carolinablue]

I can't answer your question but I will say this. I for one truely hope that these boards live on. As a newer umpire I have found them to be the most usefull tool of all. Not saying they are a substitute for studying the rules and interps. but as the old saying goes there is no substitute for experience. The abillity to tap into a wealth of knowledge gained by guys that have been in the trade longer than some have been alive is a unique and invaluable oppurtunity. More people should take advantage of it.

[Umpire in Chief]

Thanks for the kind words guys.

Obviously I'm biased on the topic but I don't think forums are fading if anything they're getting stronger I think while many of us hit 2-3 of the major forums regularly and there are a few guys who only post at one of them. For right now or at least until Umpire-Empire puts them all out of business I think collectively there are probably more guys on the forums just there are more choices now.

Add to that it is fall and as amateur umpires we don't have a lot going on. Fall ball is limited and some guys switch to other sports. So I expect there to be less traffic.

I do agree that not having some of the "big names" as active in the sites is a factor and could generate more buzz. Right now there aren't any big names lighting up the forums. IMO, and I've never spoken to any of them, one of the major reasons these guys left was the flaming. Why would a Bible or Childress or whoever else want to be associated with the sites.

If you know any of these guys let them know Umpire-Empire is different.

I agree that over the years the same topics come up again and again and they always will. Each time they have a slightly different spin and over time you can see the trends shift a bit. Look at the pivot vs glance, is the pivot even taught to rookies any more?

I do agree that there seem to be more thinned skinned umps popping up. But ultimately I don't think they will last in umpiring terribly long and some of them I have doubts if they are actually umpires.

I can tell you that there are many lurkers out there and I welcome you to jump in. We are getting about 50 visits a day from our registered members and another 100 or so from people who haven't registered. So there are a lot of people just reading. Which is just fine.

Like everything else umpire forums change and they need to be able to offer their members something new and better. With that said I'm currently planning a redesign of the site to give the members and visitors of Umpire-Empire a better experience and make the site even more user friendly. I am also working on some new features I think all will enjoy. I'll also tell you that in this update the chat feature will be going away. Blogs are on the borderline of staying or going. Classifieds I'm going to stick with in some form or another. And I'm working on a new design which will be more modern and user friendly. I don't have a time frame for completion yet but it is primarily dependant on a huge software upgrade which is coming down and I need that to be stable before making a change, but I won't be giving you anything half assed.

[mstaylor]

I think the state of baseball boards is a combination of several things, many already mentioned. Eteamz was one of the oldest and most prolific. The problem was there were many blowups and flame wars there for a number of years. Many complained about LL posts which is what started Eteamz. Myteams was started to give the LL guys a place to go without getting flamed. There was a few other boards like McGriff's that got so bad it died an ugly death. Carl got mad and started his board which was fine for a while but got ugly and many left. It has survived but many that could really contibute haven't come back. URC is another good board that has had some great board members but flames almost killed it Myteams was a good board and took all the LL off Eteamz so Eteamz bought them out and combined them. Many didn't want to go back to thhe main Eteamz board so I sttarted my own with the express purpose of replacing Myteams. It died off when Eteamz got back being a friendlier place for LLs. Many of the big dog posters are part of a private email group and no longer frequent any boards.

All boards have always had slow times in off season. Many, many times I have credited my advance in umpiring knowledge to the many boards over the years. It is why I stay around the boards. I feel I can help others advance in their advocation along with the help of many others here. Too many guys forget that once upon a ime they were inexperienced new guys and feel discussing common questions beneath them. I like this board because new guys can come here and ask valid questions and not get blasted for not already knowing it or being told to look it up. As we all know a rulebook is very dry reading and doesn't always sink in for everybody. Also, the rulebook won't tell them about the interp manuals out there that help clarify what they read.

As long as Warren and the other moderators do their jobs this place will thrive. The other thing that has to happen is spread the word to other umpires in your area so you can then become leaders in your areas.

[blindumpire99]

All boards have always had slow times in off season. Many, many times I have credited my advance in umpiring knowledge to the many boards over the years. It is why I stay around the boards. I feel I can help others advance in their advocation along with the help of many others here. Too many guys forget that once upon a ime they were inexperienced new guys and feel discussing common questions beneath them. I like this board because new guys can come here and ask valid questions and not get blasted for not already knowing it or being told to look it up. As we all know a rulebook is very dry reading and doesn't always sink in for everybody. Also, the rulebook won't tell them about the interp manuals out there that help clarify what they read.

As long as Warren and the other moderators do their jobs this place will thrive. The other thing that has to happen is spread the word to other umpires in your area so you can then become leaders in your areas.

Well put and I concur....I feel that the majority of the lurkers think that they might get slammed here and feel hesitant to sign up and jump on in..They should be assured that everyone here puts on their pants, masks or helmets, chest protectors and shin guards the same way as everyone else does..

Forgetting where you came from is a major problem for many people in many different "jobs" other than just this one. That feeling seems to permeate on other sites that I have frequented or still do occasionally..

And forgetting where you came from, IMHO, is one of the biggest and most fatal mistakes that a person can make in ANY job or profession!

just my:2cents: before Ohdumbyuh taxes me 37 cents on it to pay for socialist, oh never mind......:givebeer:

[poppyfor3]

While I can not comment on the state of this particular topic (because I'm an internet idiot), I sincerely hope this site flourishes. I read here every day, though I don't always sign in. I am much more the kindergarten student than the principal.

Having said that, this site has upgraded my performance exponentially. In my local league, a "live" body was enough. But it bothered me to the point that I asked the league president if I could run a clinic for teenage umpires this fall season. He gave his blessing. The knowledge gained here gave me the confidence to at least try. Even the format I used was gleaned from this board.

In addition to the rule book and "Myths of Baseball" quiz, I have instructed them to use this forum as a valuable learning tool. Already one boy has called me regarding one post and a question he had after reading here.

Warren, Pete, Michael, et al--you have my thanks. I am not where I am now without you guys. (Read still missing a few, but at least now I know why.)

[blue32]

I echo the sentiments of you all about the job Warren has done here. I still go to officiating.com and umpire.org, but I can't remember the last time I posted there. It's been at least several months. Like others have said, too many flame wars and internet tough guys/know-it-alls on those sites. I too, have noticed, though, that the traffic has slowed just since last year on all the sites, save this one, where it has increased.

Being a gear addicted junkie, my first trip is always to the equipment section. I always love to see new posts on gear to see what I can spend my money on next. This next season I might be able to hold on to more of my money, as there hasn't been a whole lot of stuff that's coming out that I already don't have. The new cage for the Wilson Shock looks intriguing though. I'll prob look into getting the newly designed cage and replace the one on my bucket if it fits it, because I like the look of it better. Other than that, I'm pretty much set, except for pens and a couple of additional base hats.

I don't know where I am going with this post, random thoughts I guess. Have a great night, y'all!

[midwayll]

Well, I am one of the lurkers. I joined the umpire.org forums since I buy my insurance through ABUA. And being a member has gotten me discounts on the Jim Evans Balk dvd and Jim Evans book about the 2 man umpire system.

I've recently begun posting over there and haven't experienced any of the sniping or holier than thou attitude. But I have a pretty thick skin anyway. If someone comes across like that I simply ignore them and anything they have to say.

I've read a lot of good info here, too. But it was this thread that finally made me decide to register. I finally realized that being a participant you learn more than simply being a lurker. I can't promise I'll post a whole lot, but I hope when I do it is a legitmate question or because I have something useful to add.

I've only been umping a couple of years and I constantly am reading and learning all I can to become a better umpire. And unlike others I like LL ball. Sure, it isn't the best played ball, but I've found, at least where I live, that the kids are nice and respectful and that alone makes the games more enjoyable. And I have had no run-ins with coaches. I do, however, have an itch to start to do highler level ball. My assignor asked me to do a Legion game at the end of last season, but it got rained out. So we'll see what next year holds.

[Umpire in Chief]

Welcome!

We're glad to have you here. Don't worry to much about lurking vs participating. Just chime in when you feel the desire.

I will say overall the other major boards have had their level of flaming go down significantly, but certain people and/or topics can spark the powder keg.

[Stan W.]

Ive been thinking about this for a long time and finally decided to add my .02....

I have been a long time reader and sometimes poster of Umpire websites for a looooooooong time....I go back to the old McGriff days when it was the premier site and then on the downhill slide through the flame wars......up and until it flamed out....

I have been a member of abua.com and officiating.com as a paid member for years (Stan W. and as piaa_ump) and a moderator at a HS site....

There seems to be a standard ebb and flow to websites (not just umpiring sites)....umpire sites seem to be charged with some extra type A personalities...so...to that end....

Periodically I have presented this thought at other sites and I think it applies here as well..... and I hope you may find some value in it.........I believe that these sites are the place that umpires are looking for.....

Yes, it would be easier if we could all get along and never disagree. ..But that just isnt in the nature of umpires....I often recommend umpring sites to new officials.......with this warning.......THESE SITES ARE THE DEEP END OF THE POOL.............they are not for the faint of heart.....Read a while, test the waters, get to know the posters, then hop in........

From the outside iand in reality it can seem to be all rough and tumble, rude or unforgiving......but want you to consider all accounts........ The posters here and at the other major websites encompass the wide range of umpire experience accross the board from LL to D1 to Ex- Pros..........If you want quality information delivered from those that are in the game........then these sites are the place for you.....

There are a number of other Umpire websites (which many of us frequent) that are more collegial and you may find that one of them suits your personality better....I will commend Warren as I feel Umpire -Empire is the best at maintaining decorum.....

Again, I have been around the interent websites since the early days...(as a daily reader, and infrequent poster)........what I want is quality rules information, up to date mechanics, gear reviews and quality experiences from those in our fraternity and who understand what it is like out here in the field.

Thats what I get from from these sites after all these years........no, we arent likely going to sit around and sing KUMBAYA........But you will get your monies worth.....

[mstaylor]

Like Stan I have been on all the sites over the years including McGriffs, Eteamz before it was Eteamz, Myteams, Umpire.org, Officiating.com, moderator with Stan on the HS site and others that are around. While I can argue with the best I have never understood the flame wars that have gone on over the years. I just never saw the need to get personal and desparage a person's character to try to win a point. This is why I like U-E, we can disagree and not have to call names.

Edited September 23, 2009 by Stan W.

[PeteBooth]

Like Stan I have been on all the sites over the years including McGriffs, Eteamz before it was Eteamz, Myteams, Umpire.org, Officiating.com, moderator wife Stan on the HS site and others that are around. While I can argue with the best I have never understood the flame wars that have gone on over the years. I just never saw the need to get personal and desparage a person's character to try to win a point. This is why I like U-E, we can disagree and not have to call names.

Michael the one site I thought would become THEE site was Rob Drakes (the PRO Umpire) site. It was interesting to see how a PRO umpire would rule and handle certain situations.

I found the discussions very informative and Rob like Warren was doing his best to keep the "flame throwers" away. In addition even though Rob was a PRO umpire he did not "look down" upon the questions or answer them in a snotty condescending type of way.

The problem and for obvious reasons MLB told Rob to shut his site down which IMO was a shame because membership seemed to be growing by "leaps and bounds" when his site was active.

I think eteamz is the slowest and IMO is basically a LL umpire Forum. As you well remember eteamz used to really buzz when Carl Childress, Warren Wilson, Dave Hensley, BFair and Jim Porter et al. used to post.

Now-a-days I would venture to guess that at least 85% or more of the posts center around LL. I haven't seen you post there in quite some time. Also another well known poster at eteamz (AB) doesn't seem to post as much anymore. It would be nice to get AB over here. I hardly do LL anymore so I do not even try to get into discussions about LL Regs/ Poof rule etc.

The Official Forum also is not as good as it once was. In the beginning I thought the official Forum was the best around especially after the demise of McGriffs. I do visit the Offiical Forum but do not post as much unless there is a topic of interest. The threads at the Official Forum these days have a propensity to go way off topic etc. and therefore add little value.

I would rate Umpire.Org where Richard Siegal is moderator as my number 1 Forum (sorry Warren) for now. Richard is very knowledgeable. This site is a close second but there are periods of time where there simply is not that much action. Myself, there was a period of weeks before I posted something because as mentioned there really was nothing new on the site.

Also, with all due respect to Critter it is posters like him who ask questions, receive good honest feedback without name calling etc. and in the same breath say they were treated with disrespect. Those type of posters IMO we do not need and as mentioned detract from a site trying to "get off the ground"

Another promotion if you will that IMO we could use on this Forum is some women officials like Rita at eteamz. Perhaps a PM to Rita and ask her to visit here. I know it's difficult but IMO could benefit the Forum.

I like you post on the NFHS discussion Forum as well, however, most of that discussion is during the HS season.

I know Warren is trying his best to improve membership and add some things and hopefully if membership improves we will have more action even in the offseason.

All in all this is a very good site and as membership continues on the uprise "action" will follow.

Pete Booth

[Umpire in Chief]

I would rate Umpire.Org where Richard Siegal is moderator as my number 1 Forum (sorry Warren) for now. Richard is very knowledgeable. This site is a close second but there are periods of time where there simply is not that much action. Myself, there was a period of weeks before I posted something because as mentioned there really was nothing new on the site.

Pete Booth

I can't disagree. I think the world of Richard and his ability to explain his experiences in a way to relate to the topics and in a way which is educational and still entertaining. I think he has set himself in a great position of being among the top go to guys in the amateur umpiring realm. And he does a great job.

I too thought Drake's site was great. It was great seeing the way the pros took the time to answer our questions and how relatable they were. It was a real shame it closed down.

As you well remember eteamz used to really buzz when Carl Childress, Warren Wilson, Dave Hensley, BFair and Jim Porter et al. used to post.

...

Another promotion if you will that IMO we could use on this Forum is some women officials like Rita at eteamz. Perhaps a PM to Rita and ask her to visit here. I know it's difficult but IMO could benefit the Forum.

As for attracting some of the other well known people I'm always open to it. I've sent some PM to others who I respect at various sites asking them to join. I don't have any personal relationship to them so have no pull other than just putting it out there.

I'd love to pull these guys out of retirement. I think I'll try to get in touch with them and put it out there. I can't speak for any of them, but I remember from Garth B's farewell post he mentioned the constant hatred and personal attacks were reasons he left. I might imagine it may hold the same for some of the others.

I'd also love to attract some of the active people like Richard Siegal or Bob Jenkins, but I know that they have a difficult task in moderating their respective sites. Heck, I hardly get to cruise those sites the way I use to so I know they may not have the availability either.

As for female umps I am a huge advocate of females as umpires and I think as the word of women umpires spreads more will get involved. That can start with them being involved in sites like this and getting their story out.

While my goal is to be the best Amateur Umpire related site out there not necessarily to be the biggest, but I think that will eventually come with being the best.

But I always want to improve membership and id you know any body you an send them a request to Join by clicking here or clicking the referrals button at the top of the page.

[mstaylor]

I can contact Rita and a few other good female umpires. I agree that they would be a good addition. Hensley is pretty much retired from the field and the boards. Bob Jenkins is a possibility but he doesn't venture on the boards much either. I can try AB but he is coaching football right now which is why his posting all but stops this time of year. I could try Garth but he has left everything including a private email list we were on together. It's a shame, I considered him one of the best, most knowledgable and well spoken posters out there.

I have tried repeatedly over the last several years to post at Officiating.com but they don't reconoze any of my info so I can't log on, but if I try to open a new account it says I have one. I have tried everything from contacting moderators to emailing Carl directly to no avail. I have just written it off and just don't go there. If they aren't interested in helping me out I'll just stay away.

[jjb]

Me too, Mike. I'm listed as logged on, but not allowed to post. I'm not allowed to talk to them, they don't answer my emails, chuck 'em. I'll stay here...

[Jeff C.]

I don't believe they will begin to fold or anything.

Things are slow. Not enough are doing games with some kind of play to discuss. Interest is even lost by many for the pro games b/c their team is out of any playoff chances.

I'm sure it is just that time of year and as you mentioned, how many times can a concept be discussed? Especially, if a resolution in which all agree upon is reached.

More will come up and also, when spring comes again, so does the new recruits with their questions of "this happened and what should I have done".

And, I believe that there are many "old timer" posters for now. Meaning, those who have been through many of the discussions and choose not to post in the new ones. Many of these "old timers" are also quick to put in a cheap shot remark or attempt to make the poster feel foolish.

Or, the ones who just lurk around do not feel comfortable with posting their unusual situation or even a usual situation. They would rather stumble on the answer rather than post it for an answer due to so many sites having "sharks lurking in the water". Umpire.org and officiating.com are a couple of them. They don't want to be attacked even if it is on a computer.

These are some of the reasons in which I believe there are not as many postings being done.

I agree with Mr. Umpire. I too do a lot of lurking at different sites, including this one. This is the only site I feel comfortable posting, for various reasons. If I hadn't found the forums, I would not have known about the J/R manual or the various umpire mechanics manuals. These forums are valuable resources for information. But you can't just rely on the forums. One must still study the rulebook(s) to improve. Just my .02

[chuck]

I'm also a lurker, and post when I have a question or comment. I learn tons from this and other sites. I have been umpiring only a year, all youth ball within the LL organization. Fortunately, I was given the opportunity to umpire at the District (9-10's, 11's, 11-12's), and Sectional and State Tournaments (9-10's). I am convinced that I was much better prepared for those games because of this and other sites. Recently, I told someone that is interested in umpiring youth ball about this site. I saw him last night, and he told me he had been frequenting it, and couldn't believe how much he is getting from it. Keep up the good work!

[noumpere]

I can contact Rita and a few other good female umpires. I agree that they would be a good addition. Hensley is pretty much retired from the field and the boards. Bob Jenkins is a possibility but he doesn't venture on the boards much either. I can try AB but he is coaching football right now which is why his posting all but stops this time of year. I could try Garth but he has left everything including a private email list we were on together. It's a shame, I considered him one of the best, most knowledgable and well spoken posters out there.

I have tried repeatedly over the last several years to post at Officiating.com but they don't reconoze any of my info so I can't log on, but if I try to open a new account it says I have one. I have tried everything from contacting moderators to emailing Carl directly to no avail. I have just written it off and just don't go there. If they aren't interested in helping me out I'll just stay away.

I sent this to someone I know on that board. Here is the response:

"Neither the moderators nor Carl have the ability to fix this problem. You need to contact Brad directly. Or, maybe just create a different ID. Others (canadadump for example) have done so."

[mstaylor]

Because my email is the same it won't let me do another account. I have survived this long, I keep on surviving.

Edited September 25, 2009 by mstaylor