midwayll

PM Sent. Would really like to see this.

I was not 100% sure at the time. Maybe because I didn't want to believe a catcher could do something like that. As I said, naive, stupid, or both. Appreciate the feedback.

I welcome the feedback. Thank you.

Agreed

Thanks Oldcrow and Jax. I like the advice of a warning to the manager and catcher the first time. I was definitely giving the benefit of the doubt. In hindsight, I was either naive or stupid. Or both. I've been hit like that before with a foul ball that the catcher tries for but misses. In these instances, the catcher has always been super apologetic. Not once did I get any kind of apology from this catcher. I suppose I should have ejected the second time for sure. But even then I had doubt about intent. As I said, he was being very lazy. But the coincidence and timing of being hit should have sent red flags. Naive, stupid, or both.

Looking for feedback on this situation. Did I handle correctly? Would you have done anything differently? That type of thing. Thanks in advance. LL Junior (13-14 year olds) playoff game. Bottom of 1st, 2 outs, visiting team pitcher throws two high pitches in a row that I call, "ball." Both pitches the catcher holds his glove in position for 2 or 3 seconds, shakes his head, and throws the ball back to the pitcher. I ignore. Next pitch pop out, inning over. Bottom of 2nd, outs don't matter. Right-handed batter, pitch outside. "Ball." Easy call. The catcher even moved his glove from right to left as he tried to bring the outside pitch into the strike zone. Again, holds the glove in the strike zone for a couple of seconds, gives a big sigh, slumps shoulders, and throws ball back. I ignore. Never once has the pitcher indicated his displeasure with my calls. Couple of pitches later, high fastball, catcher makes zero attempt to catch. I mean zero. Hits me in the throat. Had I not been wearing a throat guard, I would be in the hospital and not typing this. Pitch broke off one of the fasteners on my throat guard. Home team manager had a zip tie so I could fix it. I quietly told the catcher, "You have GOT to catch those." Inning ends without further incident. Bottom of 3rd, home team up 3-0. No outs. Pitcher throws a curve ball that came in high. Catcher catches it up high and brings his glove down into the strike zone. Obviously one of those catchers who thinks he can fool an umpire. I call, "ball." This time he holds the pitch, huge sigh, throws the ball back to the pitcher and shouts out, "Don't worry, that was in the zone." While the batter is doing whatever it is that batters do to get ready for the next pitch, I am telling the catcher the pitch was high, he even knew it was high because of what he did with his glove after catching the pitch, and he was never to shout from the catcher's box again that any pitch was in the zone. I get a big sigh and a mumbled, "OK." Next pitch batter grounds out. 3 pitches later, high fastball, bam! right in the mask. Catcher made zero attempt. After calling "time" I tell the catcher, "If that happens one more time, I WILL eject you." He claims he can't get his glove up that high and that fast to catch those pitches. I ignore that stupid comment because it's obvious this kid can catch. He had been lazy the whole game. His throw backs to the pitcher were not even close on a number of occasions, making his pitcher work way too hard. And his attempts at steals were laughable lazy. The kid had an arm. Don't know if it was the heat (88 with high humidity), or the fact that he didn't want to be there, but he was lazy. Anyway, after ignoring his stupid comment, I bend over to brush off the plate. That's when he says nice and loud, "This is a joke!." I finish brushing off the plate, stand up, point at the catcher, then give him the big heave-oh. Turns out the team only had 9 players. In our neck of the woods, the umpires don't have lineup cards, so I didn't know that. Can't play with 8. Game over, visiting team forfeits. I've asked myself if I had known the team only had 9 would I have ejected or would I have kept him in the game? My answer was, I would have ejected. As I have read on here before, the only ejection you regret is the one you didn't make. I have no regrets about this ejection. Sucks the game ended this way. So? Would you have ejected for that? Done anything differently? Any and all comments are welcome. Thanks.

I agree on your first scenario. Leave the runner at 3B. I disagree on your second scenario. If the pitcher is not on or astride the rubber, there is no illegal pitch. There is a dumb runner. Out! Now, if the pitcher is on or astride the rubber, then we have an illegal pitch and I would agree with your scenario.

What if the pitcher throws 15 pitches for a total of 34? Does he observe no days because he threw 20 or less before starting the next at bat? Or does he face 1 day since he crossed the second threshold of 21-35 during the at bat? There is a discussion on this on the LL Facebook discussions. The rule says the rest is based on the threshold you reach during the at bat. To most of us that means if he hit 20 but not 35 it would be no rest but would be one day as soon as he threw pitch 35 as it's the next threshold. Thanks, Rich. This is what I was interpreting as well.

What if the pitcher throws 15 pitches for a total of 34? Does he observe no days because he threw 20 or less before starting the next at bat? Or does he face 1 day since he crossed the second threshold of 21-35 during the at bat?

I wish I had this. But it'll never happen.

The umpires I use do have their own. But I don't have enough guys to cover all the games. We are a small league and simply do not get the volunteers. So for the games that I can't cover or the other umpires can't cover, it's left to the managers and coaches to do it. They don't have their own gear because they are not umpires. But I give them credit because they do the games when necessary without complaint.

Agree, NWA_Ump. And that is what I thought when I discussed donating the equipment. But in the end I decided to go the easy and safe way just to be sure. We really aren't in any danger as a league, especially with the LL mandated insurance coverage we have.

Excellent question. I was actually thinking of donating the CPs and asked our League President and VP if I did was I opening myself up to a lawsuit. They weren't sure so then I asked them if the league would pay. They said, yes. The league already provides face masks, shin guards, and the godawful balloon, so adding the CPs is no big deal. The league carries LL mandated insurance so we are covered.

Yep, the whole "unique" size is something I have thought of as well. I guess as long as the CP covers his ribs, he'll be fine.

Hey, Jeff! Been a while. I'm just coming out of hibernation, haha. That's what I was thinking, that they weren't any wider, and I didn't want to get something too long. But honestly, I'm not sure if it is wide enough. Are there chest protectors that come wider than a standard like the Champion? My initial thought was to get 1 13" and 1 15" for the league. I just wasn't sure about this one guy.

I am UIC for our local LL and this year I have convinced the Board to buy chest protectors for our volunteers. In year's past we only had the balloon. The umpires are only doing LL Minors and Majors and I am going to get some combination of the Champion P200 series (P200, P210, P220). I have the P220 (13" model) and it is great for this age group. However, seeing as how not everyone is the same size, I was also going to get the P210 which is the 15" model. But we have one guy who is quite large. He isn't very tall, about 5'8", but wears a XXXL shirt. Which model, if any, do you think will fit him? I don't want to get one that will be too long for him, but I need to make sure it will fit across his chest. Thoughts? Thanks, Chris

Oh thank goodness! I was beginning to think I was going insane. I've always done it this way no matter what level ball I have been doing.

In LL - yes.

Yes, per LL rules, which I should have stated in my original post I am referencing. But I am sure MLB is the same. I've seen OF juggle the ball, and finally catch it, but the runner has already tagged up. I do not see how your situation is any different.

Yes, catoblue. I should have stated that I was referencing LL rules. Most of the games I do are on the LL 90' diamond. In LL he can take off on the touch by F7 and not be out on appeal.

I agree with Brian on the OBR rule. But by definition "caught" means control and voluntary release. We all know the runner does not have to wait until both criteria are met. He can tag up on the initial touch. This has been the way I've been taught anyway.

Jeff, Legal catch, yes. And the way it is described (unless I am misunderstanding something) I am agreeing with your rat friend. The tag up is the moment the ball is touched by F7, not caught by F8. If he was on the base, and the ball was touched by F7, then he can go and has, by definition, tagged up. The subsequent catch of the ball by F8 is irrelevant. The runner can tag up and go on the initial touch. It would be no different than if F7 touched the ball, had it momentarily pop out of his glove and then caught it. If I am misunderstanding something, my apologies. Chris

Yes, when you take it off. But who cares at that point? It stays perfectly snug. This is the first year I've used one and I've haven't had to "readjust" yet. I don't know why I waited so long to finally get one :smachhead:

I got 3 words for you: ultimate, ultimate, ultimate

LL Rules (which follows OBR for the most part): Situation: R1 less than 2 outs. Batter-Runner hits a single to RF. R1 trucks into 3rd but misses 2nd. Play has stopped but ball still live, of course. Defense wants to appeal and instead of throwing over to second, they throw over to 3rd to tag R3 (which, of course, they can do). 3rd base coach knows R3 missed second so as soon as the pitcher throws over to 3rd base he sends the runner home. Now the 3rd baseman, who has caught the thrown ball from the pitcher, throws home to the catcher. Catcher drops ball, R3 is safe at home. Run scores, R1 moved over to 2nd base. Defense still wants to appeal but ruling on the field is that the defense lost its chance to appeal when they attempted a play on R3 at home. Appeal denied, count the run, play on. Manager argues that the attempted tag at home was still part of the appeal and not an attempted play; therefore, he says they can still throw to 2nd to appeal the missed base. Umpire rules no, play had essentially stopped when R1 reached 3rd base and therefore, there was no continuous action. The throwing of the ball by the 3rd baseman to the catcher was an attempted play and the defense loses all rights to appeal. Was the umpire correct in his ruling? The above situation came up in a training session and while most agreed the umpire got it right, some felt he did not. What is the consensus here? I have also posted this on umpire.org as I know not everyone visits both sites. Thanks in advance for your comments. I will take everything learned here back to next week's session. Chris