Babe ruth game

[critter]

Now i was Bu and PU was not my favorite person to work with.

i couldn't make a call at third my view was block. so i ask for help. he says "just make the call" i didn't make the call he did. I apgolize to the coachs for not making a call. just the fact i didn't have the right view on it.

one could care less what i called the other one like "ask your partner if you don't mind if you go home i can't have umpires not making calls"

i warn the coach after that crap got back he ask if i was alright i told him i would of like if my partner help me on a call. he just didn't talk to him pretty much.

Than a ball does a strange bounce not hitting any runners he comes ask me i say i didn't see the runner get hit. the umpire calls the runner out.

the other coach goes "oh my god" when pu ask me" i did the game but was not please with him.

I told another umpire what happen and he agreed that he should of help when when i ask. he said he there for a reason.

[Dragon29]

critter,

A bit of friendly advice, if you don't mind.

Proofread your posts - some of them are very hard to follow and that makes them very hard to respond to. A bit more punctuation would really help.

Anyway . . . I would be in the camp who says, "Make your call." I haven't always been in that camp, but I am now. It makes you look better and doesn't throw your partner under the bus. If, after you make your call, a manager has an issue with it, then go to your partner if you feel it's appropriate.

You'd be amazed how often, when you make a call that you don't think you had a great view of, no-one will argue. Very smooth.

And . . . don't tell the manager you didn't get a good look at a play. He'll give that back to you in spades for the rest of the game. Practice this phrase - "Coach, in my judgment . . . "

[mstaylor]

I have seen this post on every board you have been on and the answer is going to be the same. In a two man system you ABSOLUTELY, without a doubt, have to get in a position make your calls. If you have a safe/out call at a base, you HAVE to make that call without asking anybody. If you ae out of position, it's on you to make the call the best you can.

As far as your partner asking about an interferemce call, this is a shared call. Either of you can make this call but if you don't have it then he shouldn't ask. If you had it then you should call it. If he has it he should call it. If both aren't sure then neither makes a call. This happened in one of the LLWS or a LL Regional and they missed it, got together and still got it wrong. I disagreed that they should have conferenced but since they did, it would have been nice if they got it right.

[critter]

I have seen this post on every board you have been on and the answer is going to be the same. In a two man system you ABSOLUTELY, without a doubt, have to get in a position make your calls. If you have a safe/out call at a base, you HAVE to make that call without asking anybody. If you ae out of position, it's on you to make the call the best you can.

As far as your partner asking about an interferemce call, this is a shared call. Either of you can make this call but if you don't have it then he shouldn't ask. If you had it then you should call it. If he has it he should call it. If both aren't sure then neither makes a call. This happened in one of the LLWS or a LL Regional and they missed it, got together and still got it wrong. I disagreed that they should have conferenced but since they did, it would have been nice if they got it right.

no everyone has a different opinion dude. now stop being rude. there was no intefrence call wow.... =

[critter]

critter,

A bit of friendly advice, if you don't mind.

Proofread your posts - some of them are very hard to follow and that makes them very hard to respond to. A bit more punctuation would really help.

Anyway . . . I would be in the camp who says, "Make your call." I haven't always been in that camp, but I am now. It makes you look better and doesn't throw your partner under the bus. If, after you make your call, a manager has an issue with it, then go to your partner if you feel it's appropriate.

You'd be amazed how often, when you make a call that you don't think you had a great view of, no-one will argue. Very smooth.

And . . . don't tell the manager you didn't get a good look at a play. He'll give that back to you in spades for the rest of the game. Practice this phrase - "Coach, in my judgment . . . "

I never said anything to coach's but you guys have been wrong i am tired of people talking about my spelling and grammar i can't help it leave that part alone.

the part is that umpires are there to HELP OTHER UMPIRES OUT. every time i work.

the umpires have said if your not sure of a call ask me.

So they told me to ask. Even the umpire i ask side that what there for. He throw me under the bus i didn't throw him under one.

[SNIPERBBB]

If it is supposed to be your call, make one at least that way you have a call on the field to work with and since you were blocked you may luck into the right call and not of had to deal with the argument. Its better to ask your partner if s/he saw anything different than to ask for a complete bailout. Partner then either confirms your call or changes it and you work harder next time to not be blocked.

mstaylor, that was the regional. Would of thought that with a full crew someone should of been able to seen it. Then again, with the small diamond and not having the second base umpire inside, its a hard play to see. Inside the diamond, that call would of been automatic, or should be.

[mstaylor]

no everyone has a different opinion dude. now stop being rude. there was no intefrence call wow.... =

Two things:

One: The call that the PU asked about was did the ball hit the runner, that's an interference call and it is shared between you two but you don't call it when it happens then you probably don't have it.

Two: I am not being rude, I'm being insistant. On the call at third there is only one answer, no possibility of difference of opinion. There is a call in front of you,safe/out, you have to make that call and unless the ball comes loose and you don't see it. It is your call, the PU has no look at it, has no business getting into it and you have no business dragging him into it.

At the risk of being rude again, if you are struggling with the speed of CR/BR and being in position at these levels, do even consider high school. You need to attend some good mechnics clinics and learn how to be in the proper position using proper timing.

[scobes7]

You always have to be in a position to make a call...if you are not, it is your fault and you should really look at your footwork and positioning. You put an umpire who was out of position to make that call on the spot. I can tell you, if you do that to many times...me included...the other umpires will go to their assignor and ask not to work with you....and he could decide that your services are no longer needed....So in closing.....work on your craft.

[MCLEOD36]

Like Dragon.

Make the call, if you are out of position, get better at what you do. We have all been blocked or out of position at times, but YOU have to make the call. If not, that stuff running down your back for the rest of the game will NOT be rain....

[critter]

Like Dragon.

Make the call, if you are out of position, get better at what you do. We have all been blocked or out of position at times, but YOU have to make the call. If not, that stuff running down your back for the rest of the game will NOT be rain....

you guys fail to understand or what i am saying. no you cannot make a call if you see the play period. i ask for help as with th eumpire i work with have said the following

"if your not sure of the play ask me"

[kylejt]

There's a certain procedure that needs to followed. Understanding it is critical.

There's only one time that a BU is going to the PU for help before a call is made. That's on a pulled foot at first. "Bob, was he on the bag?" All other times the BU makes the call. If a manager wants to request that the BU gets help, he can do so.

If you wish to ignore how the process works, and the order in which it MUST happen, you're opening yourself, and all the rest of us, up to chaos on the field.

[NovaScotiaBlue]

Critter.

I am going to ask these questions...what is happening that you cannot see the play?

Are plays happening faster than you can react too? Do you find you are not getting the best angle on a play to make the call?

The key point I think all the other posters are saying is to get as good a look as you can on the play you are responsible for and make a call. That's why you are out there.

If you are asked to get help, and the situation allows for it, then yes get help, but don't rely on your partner to make your calls for you.

[critter]

There's a certain procedure that needs to followed. Understanding it is critical.

There's only one time that a BU is going to the PU for help before a call is made. That's on a pulled foot at first. "Bob, was he on the bag?" All other times the BU makes the call. If a manager wants to request that the BU gets help, he can do so.

If you wish to ignore how the process works, and the order in which it MUST happen, you're opening yourself, and all the rest of us, up to chaos on the field.

wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

[frenchblue]

wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

Critter,

that is the ONLY time...he is absolutly right

listen to what we are telling you...people have some good advice and we know what we are talking about (or most of us)...

im not being rude or harsh, im just telling you how it is...from one new englander to another, listen to us!!!

[critter]

Critter,

that is the ONLY time...he is absolutly right

listen to what we are telling you...people have some good advice and we know what we are talking about (or most of us)...

im not being rude or harsh, im just telling you how it is...from one new englander to another, listen to us!!!

That is not true. check swings, hit by batter, I am not going to listen to someone who is not right in this case. why did i have umpire telll me if i had a problem with a call ask them.

ball hits runner ask. another one was it contact made on purpose or accident. those are the ones that you are ask. so yes i have ask for help only twice.

one gave it to me the other one didn't mmm...

[kylejt]

wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

You've given cases where the BU gives instant information to the PU. We're talking about the BU deffering to the PU. I'm only aware of the one situation I outlined, the pulled foot.

Now I'm curious. Who is telling you that it's okay to defer to your partner on calls like this? This is not appropriate in any type of organized baseball officiating that I'm aware of.

critter, you've painted yourself into the troll corner, and need to earn your way back. When you find yourself up against a lot of experience folks telling you that your procedure is incorrect, and all you have is "wrong, wrong, etc", you may have to face facts.

I thought you said you were a rookie.

Edited September 2, 2009 by kylejt

[fitzy14]

Critter,

From reading these types of things on the sites for a while, usually what they're saying is 100% accurate. Also it's not good to get on they're bad side arguing about something when they know that they're right because they won't be to happy to answer anymore of your questions in the future. JMO

[SNIPERBBB]

why did i have umpire telll me if i had a problem with a call ask them.

Yes, ask them after you made your call. At the time of the call, for all you know your partner could of fainted or otherwise had no look at the play at all. Make the call to the best of your ability then ask for help if you are in doubt else it starts to look like this episode of Yes, Dear

[carolinablue]

That's hilarious.

[frenchblue]

You've given cases where the BU gives instant information to the PU. We're talking about the BU deffering to the PU. I'm only aware of the one situation I outlined, the pulled foot.

Now I'm curious. Who is telling you that it's okay to defer to your partner on calls like this? This is not appropriate in any type of organized baseball officiating that I'm aware of.

critter, you've painted yourself into the troll corner, and need to earn your way back. When you find yourself up against a lot of experience folks telling you that your procedure is incorrect, and all you have is "wrong, wrong, etc", you may have to face facts.

I thought you said you were a rookie.

That is what I am talking about...the BU deffering to PU

There is only ONE time...A PULLED FOOT...other than that, NO OTHER TIME!!!

I am not understanding where your partner and yourself are coming from in this situation...

Listen to the other people on this board...they know what they are talking about :)

[HokieUmp]

There's only one time that a BU is going to the PU for help before a call is made. That's on a pulled foot at first. "Bob, was he on the bag?" All other times the BU makes the call. If a manager wants to request that the BU gets help, he can do so.

If you wish to ignore how the process works, and the order in which it MUST happen, you're opening yourself, and all the rest of us, up to chaos on the field.

wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

Okay, look. I'm not really one to "wave my resume around," but I've had a little training in the subject. I don't have thousands of games, but I attended a National Umpire School in Australia in 2003 (which is modeled on the Evans training, but just a week, versus five weeks), and then I graduated from the Evans Academy in 2008 (which is, well, the ACTUAL Evans training).

I've been following - or trying to - these posts, and here's the thing: don't come on a board, ask a question, and then argue with it if it happens to be something you disagree with. Especially if the people telling you have the experience and/or training. I don't know what your fellow umpires at home have for training, but you keep referring to them over what we say.

Bottom line:

1. If asked to check with your base ump, $%^&$# well check with the $%#$^ base ump. HS gives you an out in the rulebook, but unless you're shoving it up a coach's orifice, don't use that out.

2. See the play, get into the proper position with distance and angle, and make your own $%^# calls. Don't wait, don't worry about "the play slowly developing" or whatever one of your fellow local umps said, don't rely on a partner - MAKE A CALL. **** Sure, you might get it wrong - it happens. Get it right as near 100% of the time, but make the call. Being afraid, or whatever the issue is, is going to make you a weak umpire, or timid. And "real" coaches/managers will eat you for lunch.

3. Either take the advice being given (especially when you're out-voted, if you will 500-1) and learn from it, and thus get better - or just end up like all the other local umpires there in your part of New Hampshire. Your choice.

****For those reading along, when I say "don't worry about the play developing," I just mean that in terms of my argument above - don't be tentative, and don't think about the 'what might happen.' Either it happens, and you see it, or it doesn't. I might not have explained that the best, but I'm too lazy to go back and word-smith it.

[SNIPERBBB]

Looks good enough to me Hokie.

[fitzy14]

Okay, look. I'm not really one to "wave my resume around," but I've had a little training in the subject. I don't have thousands of games, but I attended a National Umpire School in Australia in 2003 (which is modeled on the Evans training, but just a week, versus five weeks), and then I graduated from the Evans Academy in 2008 (which is, well, the ACTUAL Evans training).

I've been following - or trying to - these posts, and here's the thing: don't come on a board, ask a question, and then argue with it if it happens to be something you disagree with. Especially if the people telling you have the experience and/or training. I don't know what your fellow umpires at home have for training, but you keep referring to them over what we say.

Bottom line:

1. If asked to check with your base ump, $%^&$# well check with the $%#$^ base ump. HS gives you an out in the rulebook, but unless you're shoving it up a coach's orifice, don't use that out.

2. See the play, get into the proper position with distance and angle, and make your own $%^# calls. Don't wait, don't worry about "the play slowly developing" or whatever one of your fellow local umps said, don't rely on a partner - MAKE A CALL. **** Sure, you might get it wrong - it happens. Get it right as near 100% of the time, but make the call. Being afraid, or whatever the issue is, is going to make you a weak umpire, or timid. And "real" coaches/managers will eat you for lunch.

3. Either take the advice being given (especially when you're out-voted, if you will 500-1) and learn from it, and thus get better - or just end up like all the other local umpires there in your part of New Hampshire. Your choice.

****For those reading along, when I say "don't worry about the play developing," I just mean that in terms of my argument above - don't be tentative, and don't think about the 'what might happen.' Either it happens, and you see it, or it doesn't. I might not have explained that the best, but I'm too lazy to go back and word-smith it.

I agree 100%

[frenchblue]

Okay, look. I'm not really one to "wave my resume around," but I've had a little training in the subject. I don't have thousands of games, but I attended a National Umpire School in Australia in 2003 (which is modeled on the Evans training, but just a week, versus five weeks), and then I graduated from the Evans Academy in 2008 (which is, well, the ACTUAL Evans training).

I've been following - or trying to - these posts, and here's the thing: don't come on a board, ask a question, and then argue with it if it happens to be something you disagree with. Especially if the people telling you have the experience and/or training. I don't know what your fellow umpires at home have for training, but you keep referring to them over what we say.

Bottom line:

1. If asked to check with your base ump, $%^&$# well check with the $%#$^ base ump. HS gives you an out in the rulebook, but unless you're shoving it up a coach's orifice, don't use that out.

2. See the play, get into the proper position with distance and angle, and make your own $%^# calls. Don't wait, don't worry about "the play slowly developing" or whatever one of your fellow local umps said, don't rely on a partner - MAKE A CALL. **** Sure, you might get it wrong - it happens. Get it right as near 100% of the time, but make the call. Being afraid, or whatever the issue is, is going to make you a weak umpire, or timid. And "real" coaches/managers will eat you for lunch.

3. Either take the advice being given (especially when you're out-voted, if you will 500-1) and learn from it, and thus get better - or just end up like all the other local umpires there in your part of New Hampshire. Your choice.

****For those reading along, when I say "don't worry about the play developing," I just mean that in terms of my argument above - don't be tentative, and don't think about the 'what might happen.' Either it happens, and you see it, or it doesn't. I might not have explained that the best, but I'm too lazy to go back and word-smith it.

AMEN!!!

[sasmallen]

Okay, look. I'm not really one to "wave my resume around," but I've had a little training in the subject. I don't have thousands of games, but I attended a National Umpire School in Australia in 2003 (which is modeled on the Evans training, but just a week, versus five weeks), and then I graduated from the Evans Academy in 2008 (which is, well, the ACTUAL Evans training).

I've been following - or trying to - these posts, and here's the thing: don't come on a board, ask a question, and then argue with it if it happens to be something you disagree with. Especially if the people telling you have the experience and/or training. I don't know what your fellow umpires at home have for training, but you keep referring to them over what we say.

Bottom line:

1. If asked to check with your base ump, $%^&$# well check with the $%#$^ base ump. HS gives you an out in the rulebook, but unless you're shoving it up a coach's orifice, don't use that out.

2. See the play, get into the proper position with distance and angle, and make your own $%^# calls. Don't wait, don't worry about "the play slowly developing" or whatever one of your fellow local umps said, don't rely on a partner - MAKE A CALL. **** Sure, you might get it wrong - it happens. Get it right as near 100% of the time, but make the call. Being afraid, or whatever the issue is, is going to make you a weak umpire, or timid. And "real" coaches/managers will eat you for lunch.

3. Either take the advice being given (especially when you're out-voted, if you will 500-1) and learn from it, and thus get better - or just end up like all the other local umpires there in your part of New Hampshire. Your choice.

****For those reading along, when I say "don't worry about the play developing," I just mean that in terms of my argument above - don't be tentative, and don't think about the 'what might happen.' Either it happens, and you see it, or it doesn't. I might not have explained that the best, but I'm too lazy to go back and word-smith it.

Amen!