Batter's Interference.... Maybe

[mstaylor]

I was watching an adult wooden bat league last night. R1,R3, pitch comes in, batter swings and steps out on the plate and R1 steals second. The throw goes to second, runner was safe but overslid the bag and was tagged out. While that was happening the R3 came home.

My point was the DM should have argued the BI. Even though the R1 was out, it wasn't on the initial throw so BI should have been enforced. If it was then the batter would have been out, R1 returned and R3 also returns. He still gets and out bu unscores the run. Am I missing something?

[yawetag]

Nope.

[Thunderheads]

Michael, ...

As it's written, I don't see where BI comes into play ....

[noumpere]

Michael, ...

As it's written, I don't see where BI comes into play ....

He said batter swings and steps out on the plate and while that doesnt explisitly meant that there was interference it was obvious from his question what he was talking about. Now if had done said something like should this have been interfence we coudl have that discussion.

[mstaylor]

It was absolutely BI, that's why the the throw was off to begin with.

Now, let's change the play. R1 only, and same thing happens. Throw goes down and they don't get him but he overslides and they get him on the second attempt. Now the OM comes out and argues for the BI. If he is successful his batter is called out and his runner returns to first. Thoughts?

[Thunderheads]

sorry guys ...reading / comprehension issue this morning!:bang:

[Rich Ives]

Why don't you folks go read 6.06(c ) Exception and Comment.

Was R1 attempting to advance? Did he get put out?

[mstaylor]

Why don't you folks go read 6.06(c ) Exception and Comment.

Was R1 attempting to advance? Did he get put out?

Not on the initial throw.

[Rich Ives]

Why don't you folks go read 6.06(c ) Exception and Comment.

Was R1 attempting to advance? Did he get put out?

Not on the initial throw.

Really? Did it get thrown somewhere else?

If you overslide the base and get put out returning do you get credit for a stolen base? I'll save you the trouble of looking:

10.07 (e) When a runner is tagged out after oversliding a base, while attempting either to return to that base or to advance to the next base, the official scorer shall not credit such runner with a stolen base.

[mstaylor]

Rich:

If the throw goes to second on a BI and the runner gets in a rundown is he out or does the BI get enforced?

[NFUA_44]

Why don't you folks go read 6.06(c ) Exception and Comment.

Was R1 attempting to advance? Did he get put out?

Not on the initial throw.

Really? Did it get thrown somewhere else?

If you overslide the base and get put out returning do you get credit for a stolen base? I'll save you the trouble of looking:

10.07 (e) When a runner is tagged out after oversliding a base, while attempting either to return to that base or to advance to the next base, the official scorer shall not credit such runner with a stolen base.

Thanks for the cite Rich, as usual it's always good to go diving for answers.

My question would be this. The INT happened and I called it at the plate, that initial throw doesn't ring the bell, now F4 has to make another attempt to retire the runner. Hasn't my call of INT brought everything to a stop since I'm announcing, "TIME, that's INT"? I have always called it in the manner Michael suggests, but I can see both sides of it, interested in the conversation for sure.

[mstaylor]

On a BI call the ball is delayed dead, if the initial gets the runner out then ignore the interference. If the the first throw doesn't get the runner then kill the ball and enforce the BI. Now the problem was the PU didn't call the obvious BI so the second tag happened. My question is can the offense argue for a BI. Normally that is an arguement for the defense but in this case it could be an advantage for the offense. They are going to be charged with an out either way, if they get the BI call they keep a baserunner.

[Rich Ives]

On a BI call the ball is delayed dead, if the initial gets the runner out then ignore the interference. If the the first throw doesn't get the runner then kill the ball and enforce the BI. Now the problem was the PU didn't call the obvious BI so the second tag happened. My question is can the offense argue for a BI. Normally that is an arguement for the defense but in this case it could be an advantage for the offense. They are going to be charged with an out either way, if they get the BI call they keep a baserunner.

The throw got him. That's why R1 is out.

[mstaylor]

It could be argued that way but it could be argued my way also. The second play is what got him out not the first.

[Mr Umpire]

No interp says the number of plays matter. All they say is the number of throws: the initial throw. Maybe they didn't envision a play like that or maybe they did. Either way, the interp covers this by only saying the initial throw not the initial play.

[Rich Ives]

It could be argued that way but it could be argued my way also. The second play is what got him out not the first.

The initial throw got the runner. It's the throw that matters, not the number of attempts.

Suppose the fielder swiped at the runner and missed, but the riunner slid and stopped short of the base. Then on the second attempt the runner was tagged out. Would you let this overrule the BI or not?

[mstaylor]

Possibly yes. Say the runner stops but the F4 runs him down, no further throw, out or BI.

[Mr Umpire]

Once R1 gets in a rundown, he is no longer attempting to advance when he retreats. As soon as he does that, BI is called. However, if he is still trying to advance and gets put out attempting to advance to the next base, it doesn't matter how many tag attempts it took to retire him. The runner being played on was retired. That satisfies the rule and therefore, BI is ignored.

[mazzamouth]

Rich:

If the throw goes to second on a BI and the runner gets in a rundown is he out or does the BI get enforced?

AS SOOn as the Catcher Initial throw does not retire the runner.."time is called" and called the batter out and return the runner back to his base at TOP.

[mazzamouth]

Once R1 gets in a rundown, he is no longer attempting to advance when he retreats. As soon as he does that, BI is called. However, if he is still trying to advance and gets put out attempting to advance to the next base, it doesn't matter how many tag attempts it took to retire him. The runner being played on was retired. That satisfies the rule and therefore, BI is ignored.

No.. if a rundown occurs the PU NEEDS to call "time" and enforce the BI ....

[Mr Umpire]

Once R1 gets in a rundown, he is no longer attempting to advance when he retreats. As soon as he does that, BI is called. However, if he is still trying to advance and gets put out attempting to advance to the next base, it doesn't matter how many tag attempts it took to retire him. The runner being played on was retired. That satisfies the rule and therefore, BI is ignored.

No.. if a rundown occurs the PU NEEDS to call "time" and enforce the BI ....

That's what I said except I used "called" instead of "enforce". And, left out the mechanics of enforcing it.

Once R1 gets in a rundown, he is no longer attempting to advance when he retreats. As soon as he does that, BI is called.

[NFUA_44]

Rich:

If the throw goes to second on a BI and the runner gets in a rundown is he out or does the BI get enforced?

AS SOOn as the Catcher Initial throw does not retire the runner.."time is called" and called the batter out and return the runner back to his base at TOP.

This was my point. If you have followed through on the mechanics of things, the INT is already out of your mouth, and TIME is being called. It's gonna be much easier to return R1 and ding the B1 if I've just followed the mechanics. If it becomes apparent that he was out by a wide margin and it was on that Initial throw, it's even easier to explain. If you wait to call Time and announce the INT, your just begging for a sh*tstorm.

[mstaylor]

Rich:

If the throw goes to second on a BI and the runner gets in a rundown is he out or does the BI get enforced?

AS SOOn as the Catcher Initial throw does not retire the runner.."time is called" and called the batter out and return the runner back to his base at TOP.

Mazz, we are agreeing, what do you have on the slide by and a second tag. BI or out?

[mazzamouth]

Rich:

If the throw goes to second on a BI and the runner gets in a rundown is he out or does the BI get enforced?

AS SOOn as the Catcher Initial throw does not retire the runner.."time is called" and called the batter out and return the runner back to his base at TOP.

This was my point. If you have followed through on the mechanics of things, the INT is already out of your mouth, and TIME is being called. It's gonna be much easier to return R1 and ding the B1 if I've just followed the mechanics. If it becomes apparent that he was out by a wide margin and it was on that Initial throw, it's even easier to explain. If you wait to call Time and announce the INT, your just begging for a sh*tstorm.

No you do not call time, you have to let the catcher try to retire R1... the proper mechanic is... "signal the swinging strike, call the INT, and come out from behind HP to see if R1 is out or safe, If safe call time, say " I have INT, you ( pointing at the batter) your out, you ( pointing at R1) back to 1st.

[mazzamouth]

Rich:

If the throw goes to second on a BI and the runner gets in a rundown is he out or does the BI get enforced?

AS SOOn as the Catcher Initial throw does not retire the runner.."time is called" and called the batter out and return the runner back to his base at TOP.

Mazz, we are agreeing, what do you have on the slide by and a second tag. BI or out?

Im with you.. the initial throw didnt get the runner...but you can sell it cause the runner is out.. it will depend on how well you can sell it....LOL