Coach Sh@t Storm

[bpate]

Hey guys,

I was coaching a youth rec league game over the weekend for the league championship. I was the Home Coach and the Visiting Coach happened to be the league commissioner. 1 Umpire and he's 20ish and probably 1st year or 2nd year. (Performed admirably all season long). From the beginning of the game, the vc is chirping about judgement calls. This continues into the 2nd with his assistant coaches chiming in now. I'm growing tired of it as I am sure the ump is. It has gotten to the point where every call is contested verbally. Even the obvious calls are sarcastically contested. Top of 3rd, vt gets burned on a "house rules" call for 3rd out. VC (comissioner) verbally contest the call again, this time claiming the ump doesn't know the rules. Truth of the matter here is that the umpire got it correct to the T. (Was even able to cite the rule). By this point, I've had enough of the bullying attempts from vt and I go to the umpire and tell him that I thought he had made a good call. This completely enrages the vc (comissioner) and he comes running across the field yelling that he doesn't need me congratulating the umpire on every call. My reply to him was "You're the comissioner aren't you. Why do you keep acting like this?" Long story short, we had a brief verbal altercation in the middle of the field. (for which I am embarrassed) Umpire disappears during this event (Probably a good move). My question for you all is should I have said anything to the umpire or just let the vc hang himself? By commenting, the heat came my direction and was redirected from the umpire. Keep in mind that the young ump was unlikely to dump the comissioner (in my opinion).

Thanks for any advice.

[JaxRolo]

Sometimes is nice to hear a coach acknowledge that you made a good call. Specially if you are a new umpire.

If its an experienced umpire then it might not really matter cause they know how things turn on a dime.

Last year I had a 10U game where for the first 5 innings all was good. Complements left and right. In the last inning a close call went against one of the teams and all of a sudden they were like. "Blue wants to get out of here Early" That's Horrible!, etc etc.

[mw94]

Sometimes is nice to hear a coach acknowledge that you made a good call. Specially if you are a new umpire.

If its an experienced umpire then it might not really matter cause they know how things turn on a dime.

Last year I had a 10U game where for the first 5 innings all was good. Complements left and right. In the last inning a close call went against one of the teams and all of a sudden they were like. "Blue wants to get out of here Early" That's Horrible!, etc etc.

A very wise & veteran MLB umpire (hint more games than anyone)" Told me if you believe them when they tell you "Good Job" well I guess you should believe them when they tell you suck .

Bottom line I never give a rats ass what a coach or Mgr thinks of my umpiring .

[JaxRolo]

Sometimes is nice to hear a coach acknowledge that you made a good call. Specially if you are a new umpire.

If its an experienced umpire then it might not really matter cause they know how things turn on a dime.

Last year I had a 10U game where for the first 5 innings all was good. Complements left and right. In the last inning a close call went against one of the teams and all of a sudden they were like. "Blue wants to get out of here Early" That's Horrible!, etc etc.

A very wise & veteran MLB umpire (hint more games than anyone)" Told me if you believe them when they tell you "Good Job" well I guess you should believe them when they tell you suck .

Bottom line I never give a rats ass what a coach or Mgr thinks of my umpiring .

Amen to that! This is exactly what I said earlier tonight on a different thread.

[MPLSMatt]

I think it was a classy move. Once you've been around for a few years, you really don't care too much (or so we tell people - secretly we all appreciate any support), but to take some heat off of a newer, younger umpire was a classy move. The fact that people like this continue to get involved in youth sports (and get elevated to commissioner) saddens me. Sounds like the umpire has learned the rules part of the game, just needs to work on game management a bit.

Matt

[sdix00]

I think any coach who shows a little support to the umpire is doing a good thing. At the youth level, you might call this support. At the higher levels, it's just respect for someone working hard.

As a coach, I recommend never criticize a judgement call. If you feel you need to, just ask him what he had in a respectful way.

I coached or managed about 500 games and I screwed up bad enough to get dumped maybe 5 times. Never dumped, but probably deserved it. I think having an umpire-friendly rep helped me stay in those tough games.

I ran in to one of the umpires at the mall during my first year of coaching and he stopped me to tell me that my games were always the most fun to work. He was a horrible umpire, but it drove the point home with me. I imagined how badly he must be getting skewered at his other games. Ever since then, I made it a point to treat umpires well.

Some guys will tell you how they don't care if a manager has bad or good things to say. But I think it is human nature to to appreciate when someone shows respect. That is the way the game should be played. I never understood why yelling at the umpire had to be such a fundamental part of the game.

[scrounge]

Outrageous - but sadly not surprising - that this clown is a commissioner. Seems like every rec league has one of them.

[PeteBooth]

name='bpate' timestamp='1306151996' post='53468']

Hey guys,

I was coaching a youth rec league game over the weekend for the league championship. I was the Home Coach and the Visiting Coach happened to be the league commissioner. 1 Umpire and he's 20ish and probably 1st year or 2nd year. (Performed admirably all season long). From the beginning of the game, the vc is chirping about judgement calls.

Ah those wonderful rec league games. Only 1 umpire and now we know why. The commissioner of all people acting like an a*****e. We can just imagine how the rest of the coaches in this league are if the Commissioner acts in the manner you describe.

Not much longer before you have no umpires show.

Pete Booth

[Guest]

I've been on all 3 sides of this equation and if I am you, as home manager, and this is going down, the umpire suddenly needs a few more baseballs or a line-up card "substitution"

This allows you to send the exact same message without making it known to the other team that you are kissing ass, as that is exactly how it will appear to them.

If the other team continues to be a harassing problem to the umpire, after one of the calls that they "contest", I'd be yelling from inside my dugout, "hey, how about we let the umpires call this game?" Then sit back down and do not say another word so the altercation that will result becomes one sided. After that however, it is up to the umpire(s) to grow a backbone and handle business.

And I've said this before and I'll say it again:

At higher levels, coaches and players do damn well know what good umpiring looks like. So while you can't accept every single one of their comments for being 100% true, to say that automatically, all comments must be discounted, good or bad, is also wrong.

For instance, last night, I had a dish for a Senior AAA game. As I was changing in the parking lot after, the visiting team, who had lost, was having their post game beverage a short distance away from me, as this park had no clubhouse for the visitors. The visitors happen to be one of the more "vocal" teams in the league and there were a couple moments in the game where the manager and I saw a pitch differently, but nothing sinister enough to merit even a simple glance in his direction. The manager saw that I was changing a short ways away and came over, with his catcher, unsolicited, at which point they both shook my hand and said it was a well called game by myself.

Did the manager and catcher agree with every ball / strike decision I made? Not a chance. But evidently they were both satisfied with the general level of consistency of my ball / strike performance and chose to let me know. When I analyze my performance, it won't have any impact on how I think I did, but I do respect them more for coming to me after a loss and acknowledging I had a pretty damn good game (if I do say so myself).

[PeteBooth]

name='ump_24' timestamp='1308686686' post='58450']

I've been on all 3 sides of this equation and if I am you, as home manager, and this is going down, the umpire suddenly needs a few more baseballs or a line-up card "substitution"

This allows you to send the exact same message without making it known to the other team that you are kissing ass, as that is exactly how it will appear to them.

If the other team continues to be a harassing problem to the umpire, after one of the calls that they "contest", I'd be yelling from inside my dugout, "hey, how about we let the umpires call this game?" Then sit back down and do not say another word so the altercation that will result becomes one sided. After that however, it is up to the umpire(s) to grow a backbone and handle business.

And I've said this before and I'll say it again:

At higher levels, coaches and players do damn well know what good umpiring looks like. So while you can't accept every single one of their comments for being 100% true, to say that automatically, all comments must be discounted, good or bad, is also wrong.

The relevant part of the OP

was coaching a youth rec league game over the weekend for the league championship. I was the Home Coach and the Visiting Coach happened to be the league commissioner. 1 Umpire and he's 20ish and probably 1st year or 2nd year

You cannot compare high level baseball to a youth rec league game. The umpire has little or no experience and the Commissioner of this league is the one who is acting like an a*****e. if the Commissioner acts this way you can guess how others behave. Sounds like a league with NO discipline whatsoever.

That's why for the most part you only had one umpire to begin with and he doesn't know any better or he would have refused the assignment.

In a nutshell the recommendations and analogies you used in your response do not fit this OP. It's Youth Rec league enough said.

Pete Booth

[AmackNH]

name='ump_24' timestamp='1308686686' post='58450']

I've been on all 3 sides of this equation and if I am you, as home manager, and this is going down, the umpire suddenly needs a few more baseballs or a line-up card "substitution"

This allows you to send the exact same message without making it known to the other team that you are kissing ass, as that is exactly how it will appear to them.

If the other team continues to be a harassing problem to the umpire, after one of the calls that they "contest", I'd be yelling from inside my dugout, "hey, how about we let the umpires call this game?" Then sit back down and do not say another word so the altercation that will result becomes one sided. After that however, it is up to the umpire(s) to grow a backbone and handle business.

And I've said this before and I'll say it again:

At higher levels, coaches and players do damn well know what good umpiring looks like. So while you can't accept every single one of their comments for being 100% true, to say that automatically, all comments must be discounted, good or bad, is also wrong.

The relevant part of the OP

was coaching a youth rec league game over the weekend for the league championship. I was the Home Coach and the Visiting Coach happened to be the league commissioner. 1 Umpire and he's 20ish and probably 1st year or 2nd year

You cannot compare high level baseball to a youth rec league game. The umpire has little or no experience and the Commissioner of this league is the one who is acting like an a*****e. if the Commissioner acts this way you can guess how others behave. Sounds like a league with NO discipline whatsoever.

That's why for the most part you only had one umpire to begin with and he doesn't know any better or he would have refused the assignment.

In a nutshell the recommendations and analogies you used in your response do not fit this OP. It's Youth Rec league enough said.

Pete Booth

I am fairly new to this site but I have seen this over and over again already. Am I missing something??? Does EVERY response to EVERY post have to answer the OP and the OP only without any deviation? I see repeatedly where "experienced" guys or guys with moderator titles do this. Whats the point? I think we are all smart enough to distunguish that the ump24 was making a more generalized statement about compliments not always being disregarded. Did we really need a chastisement for deviating from the OP??? I REALLY like this site and have relied on it alot for rules references, mechanics, etc but this is starting to annoy me.

[mstaylor]

Threads will many times evolve from the OP. Sometimes that's good, sometimes that's bad

[yawetag]

Threads will many times evolve from the OP. Sometimes that's good, sometimes that's bad

This. Generally, I don't have a problem with discussing an OP as it relates to different levels, whether it's game management (could be different depending on the age level) or the rules (different by rule code); all I care is that it's obvious about the deviation.

What I don't like to see is someone taking the OP and changing the situation. I'd prefer these to become a new thread, as someone reading it later may confuse the two together, or the two situations become entwined through the posts.

[PeteBooth]

'NHRookieBlue' timestamp='1308797928' post='58704']

I am fairly new to this site but I have seen this over and over again already. Am I missing something??? Does EVERY response to EVERY post have to answer the OP and the OP only without any deviation? I see repeatedly where "experienced" guys or guys with moderator titles do this. Whats the point? I think we are all smart enough to distunguish that the ump24 was making a more generalized statement about compliments not always being disregarded. Did we really need a chastisement for deviating from the OP??? I REALLY like this site and have relied on it alot for rules references, mechanics, etc but this is starting to annoy me.

I suggest you get thicker skin. I did NOT chastise Ump24. He is a well regarded poster and i have nothing but the upmost respect for him even though we have never met. His comments were well noted but IMO did not fit the OP. It's ok to deviate from an OP a little.

Example: Let's say someone posted an OBR rules question and a poster answered using a NCAA / FED rule reference. That's ok because it's sometimes important to know the different rules sets.

In this OP we are talking about a youth rec league game where you get Daddy Coaches and the commissioner "to boot" acting like a jerk. That's altogether different then what ump24 posted talking about a Senior AAA game. That's high level baseball.

The new poster these days seems to get "bent out of shape" rather easily and this new "breed" of poster would not have lasted 1 minute on some of the old Internet discussion Forums like McGrifths.

If you are starting to get annoyed then simply "surf" You did not add anything of value to the posters comments.

Pete Booth

[ukce1861]

The new poster these days seems to get "bent out of shape" rather easily and this new "breed" of poster would not have lasted 1 minute on some of the old Internet discussion Forums like McGrifths.

I'd like to take this thread completely off-topic and say, I believe this is the first reference I've ever seen to the "good ol' days" of the internet. Just kinda funny - maybe just to me...

Wonder what the equivalent to walking 2 miles, barefooted, uphill both ways will be?

[AmackNH]

'NHRookieBlue' timestamp='1308797928' post='58704']

I am fairly new to this site but I have seen this over and over again already. Am I missing something??? Does EVERY response to EVERY post have to answer the OP and the OP only without any deviation? I see repeatedly where "experienced" guys or guys with moderator titles do this. Whats the point? I think we are all smart enough to distunguish that the ump24 was making a more generalized statement about compliments not always being disregarded. Did we really need a chastisement for deviating from the OP??? I REALLY like this site and have relied on it alot for rules references, mechanics, etc but this is starting to annoy me.

I suggest you get thicker skin. I did NOT chastise Ump24. He is a well regarded poster and i have nothing but the upmost respect for him even though we have never met. His comments were well noted but IMO did not fit the OP. It's ok to deviate from an OP a little.

Example: Let's say someone posted an OBR rules question and a poster answered using a NCAA / FED rule reference. That's ok because it's sometimes important to know the different rules sets.

In this OP we are talking about a youth rec league game where you get Daddy Coaches and the commissioner "to boot" acting like a jerk. That's altogether different then what ump24 posted talking about a Senior AAA game. That's high level baseball.

The new poster these days seems to get "bent out of shape" rather easily and this new "breed" of poster would not have lasted 1 minute on some of the old Internet discussion Forums like McGrifths.

If you are starting to get annoyed then simply "surf" You did not add anything of value to the posters comments.

Pete Booth

Ok. I will get thicker skin. I interpret his post and your response differently than your explanation. As for your last post...did you really just complain about those darn young whippersnappers??? Also, maybe you should put the "you did not add anything of value to the posters comments" to your signature block. You seem to write it alot. Does writing that add value to the OP or just make people feel better? In any case, I acknowledge that interpreting context of text can be difficult and I may have misread the initial response that irritated me again. That said, I will set back and "surf" until I have appropriately thick skin to jump back over to the adult table.

[LMSANS]

The new poster these days seems to get "bent out of shape" rather easily and this new "breed" of poster would not have lasted 1 minute on some of the old Internet discussion Forums like McGrifths.

I'd like to take this thread completely off-topic and say, I believe this is the first reference I've ever seen to the "good ol' days" of the internet. Just kinda funny - maybe just to me...

Wonder what the equivalent to walking 2 miles, barefooted, uphill both ways will be?

BTW, that's 5 miles and in 2 feet of snow...@ 9.6 baud!

[sdix00]

The new poster these days seems to get "bent out of shape" rather easily and this new "breed" of poster would not have lasted 1 minute on some of the old Internet discussion Forums like McGrifths.

I'd like to take this thread completely off-topic and say, I believe this is the first reference I've ever seen to the "good ol' days" of the internet. Just kinda funny - maybe just to me...

Wonder what the equivalent to walking 2 miles, barefooted, uphill both ways will be?

Dial-up.

Dang it, Larry beat me to it.

[mstaylor]

Having been on some tough boards in the past, including McGriff's, I try to make the present boards informative as well as user friendly. While here can be heated discussions about a topic, some of the old threads on places like McGriff's were just guys attacking each other personally. I never understood it, never condoned it and boards like that eventually died, why, because it is tiresome to see guys say the same things over and over just to attack a person. I'm not saying that's the case here but I do see cases around the boards I frequent where a reasoned answer would have been useful but an experienced poster simply chose to make a sacastic and snarky answer. I'm not saying not to disagree. I'm not saying to not redirect a thread. I am simply asking all of us to think twice before hitting send.

[bpate]

Hey guys,

I appreciate the responses. Yes it's rec league with daddy coaches etc... but it's all we've got and I'd like to make it the best that it can be. I'll use your feedback to try to do just that. Thanks!!!

[mstaylor]

Hey guys,

I was coaching a youth rec league game over the weekend for the league championship. I was the Home Coach and the Visiting Coach happened to be the league commissioner. 1 Umpire and he's 20ish and probably 1st year or 2nd year. (Performed admirably all season long). From the beginning of the game, the vc is chirping about judgement calls. This continues into the 2nd with his assistant coaches chiming in now. I'm growing tired of it as I am sure the ump is. It has gotten to the point where every call is contested verbally. Even the obvious calls are sarcastically contested. Top of 3rd, vt gets burned on a "house rules" call for 3rd out. VC (comissioner) verbally contest the call again, this time claiming the ump doesn't know the rules. Truth of the matter here is that the umpire got it correct to the T. (Was even able to cite the rule). By this point, I've had enough of the bullying attempts from vt and I go to the umpire and tell him that I thought he had made a good call. This completely enrages the vc (comissioner) and he comes running across the field yelling that he doesn't need me congratulating the umpire on every call. My reply to him was "You're the comissioner aren't you. Why do you keep acting like this?" Long story short, we had a brief verbal altercation in the middle of the field. (for which I am embarrassed) Umpire disappears during this event (Probably a good move). My question for you all is should I have said anything to the umpire or just let the vc hang himself? By commenting, the heat came my direction and was redirected from the umpire. Keep in mind that the young ump was unlikely to dump the comissioner (in my opinion).

Thanks for any advice.

Back to the OP, were there any other board members there. If the guy can't control himself on the field then he shouldn't be coaching or be a commissoner. Whenever something like this happens a report should be made to the board. As far as the umpire, he is probably to inexperienced to be doing a championship game and there should NEVER,EVER be an one man system on a championship game. If the umpire had been more experienced he would have shut the coach down way before it got to the point that it did. I'm sure the umpire had good judgement and even rules knowledge but game management is way harder when you are young. Add in the fact that the has a board position and the young umpire is intiminated into not taking care of business. Because the coach has the position he does, he knows the umpire will bend to his will. Going to his UIC to have him work on his game management is also a good thing. For the off season, go to the BOD and try to get them to make a commish that coaches not be a commish in his age group.

[bpate]

Good point. Don't let a comissioner have a conflict of interest by being a coach as well. (At least not in the same age group)

Agreed on all other points as well. No other directors were present.