U3K Mechanic

[SnareDrum]

I know this one will get some differing outlooks. I'd especially love to hear from clinicians and those that have attended at different levels about what's being taught/learned.

I do both FP and baseball, and in FP, even at the upper levels there are more U3Ks due to dropballs and larger balls (quiet!). In the FP "Tips!" thread, one guy mentioned that in their league they all have a standard mechanic, and I also saw in a post somewhere around here about an immediate safe sign... and it got me thinking.

As PU, you see a non-obvious or obvious U3K skip in or trap? What do you do? Safe sign. point down, yank off the mask, nothing? As BU, you see the U3K but your PU does not. What do you do? Hand down subtly, point down, safe sign, go into motion, nothing? In any case, maybe the catcher, batter, coaches, fans, whoever sees it and starts yelling or maybe they don't.

Basically, do you do anything to let your partner know that you have something? Of course as a BU who doesn't keep the count, you'd maybe go with nothing. Understood. If you don't see it out there in BU land, would you like to know so that you can prepare to get moving? Maybe as PU, 3K comes in with 2 out and bases loaded and the runner takes off as you glance at your partner who is doing nothing. Do you wait for everybody to stop running and yelling and try to figure it out? Is this one of those "It's the PU's job!", or "if they don't know, I ain't tellin' 'em!" kind of deals? Is this something you discuss in your pre-game? Does age-level / talent level make a difference?

If I'm BU, I'll point my finger down. If I see it caught, I'll clench/unclench my fist. As PU, it's the point for U3K that's obvious, and an emphatic Out signal with an occasional "Batter's out!" tossed in if I'm sure it was caught and after a peek at my partner if he's signalling something. We talk a little about it in pre-game, though I've worked with many guys who prefer nothing, or will do nothing even after we've talked about it.

Thanks! Sorry post's so long...

[txump81]

As BU, I will give a discreet closed fist next to my leg on a caught 3K. If I am in A or D, I will take a couple steps into fair territory on an U3K. If in B or C, I usually point at the ground.

As PU, on an U3K, I come up with a safe sign whether obvious or not. Most of the time on the real obvious ones, you don't have to do anything as the idiot in the upper deck with 12 ballpark beers knows. Not saying don't indicate, just saying you don't have to sell the no catch with palms down.

[Vegas]

I was taught the clench/unclench method by the guys in my association. I've kinda put my own spin on it for the guys that are a little older in the group.

The closed fist in A position, but in B/C I take the front foot (closest to the plate) and point the toe down for U3K. It seems strange, but most of the guys look down to up, so it works. I usually defer to whatever the PU likes and recognizes, though.

[zm1283]

I know this one will get some differing outlooks. I'd especially love to hear from clinicians and those that have attended at different levels about what's being taught/learned.

I do both FP and baseball, and in FP, even at the upper levels there are more U3Ks due to dropballs and larger balls (quiet!). In the FP "Tips!" thread, one guy mentioned that in their league they all have a standard mechanic, and I also saw in a post somewhere around here about an immediate safe sign... and it got me thinking.

As PU, you see a non-obvious or obvious U3K skip in or trap? What do you do? Safe sign. point down, yank off the mask, nothing? As BU, you see the U3K but your PU does not. What do you do? Hand down subtly, point down, safe sign, go into motion, nothing? In any case, maybe the catcher, batter, coaches, fans, whoever sees it and starts yelling or maybe they don't.

As PU: If it's a full swing, I just signal the strike normally with my right hand followed immediately by the "safe" mechanic with the "no catch" verbalized. If there is a check swing involved that I'm getting for a strike, I point with my left hand first to indicate I have a swing.

As BU: Clenched fist up in the air for a catch and open hand to the side for a no catch if it is a close catch/no catch by F2.

Basically, do you do anything to let your partner know that you have something? Of course as a BU who doesn't keep the count, you'd maybe go with nothing. Understood. If you don't see it out there in BU land, would you like to know so that you can prepare to get moving? Maybe as PU, 3K comes in with 2 out and bases loaded and the runner takes off as you glance at your partner who is doing nothing. Do you wait for everybody to stop running and yelling and try to figure it out? Is this one of those "It's the PU's job!", or "if they don't know, I ain't tellin' 'em!" kind of deals? Is this something you discuss in your pre-game? Does age-level / talent level make a difference?

If I'm BU, I'll point my finger down. If I see it caught, I'll clench/unclench my fist. As PU, it's the point for U3K that's obvious, and an emphatic Out signal with an occasional "Batter's out!" tossed in if I'm sure it was caught and after a peek at my partner if he's signalling something. We talk a little about it in pre-game, though I've worked with many guys who prefer nothing, or will do nothing even after we've talked about it.

Thanks! Sorry post's so long...

All BU's should be aware of the count. Just because some of us don't carry indicators doesn't mean we don't know the count.

I worked with one of my first partners the other night who carried and indicator on the bases and a plate brush as well. He cleaned whichever base he was closest to between innings. Facepalm....

[mstaylor]

As BU: Clenched fist up in the air for a catch and open hand to the side for a no catch if it is a close catch/no catch by F2.

Just do it in front of you, no need to put it over your head. Another mechanic that hasn't been brought up is a check swing, the PU calls a ball but as the BU you would bang if he comes to you. The PU should come to you imediately but if he doesn't then bang him yourself. This let's everyone know it is a D3K.

[yawetag]

The closed fist in A position, but in B/C I take the front foot (closest to the plate) and point the toe down for U3K. It seems strange, but most of the guys look down to up, so it works. I usually defer to whatever the PU likes and recognizes, though.

Front foot? I think you might be angled wrong.

[zm1283]

As BU: Clenched fist up in the air for a catch and open hand to the side for a no catch if it is a close catch/no catch by F2.

Just do it in front of you, no need to put it over your head. Another mechanic that hasn't been brought up is a check swing, the PU calls a ball but as the BU you would bang if he comes to you. The PU should come to you imediately but if he doesn't then bang him yourself. This let's everyone know it is a D3K.

We make it a little higher so the plate guy can see it. When I say "up" I don't mean up over your head. More like chest-high. It works for us.

[mstaylor]

Gotcha, I was seeing over your head. We do it around the belt so chest makes sense.

[Vegas]

The closed fist in A position, but in B/C I take the front foot (closest to the plate) and point the toe down for U3K. It seems strange, but most of the guys look down to up, so it works. I usually defer to whatever the PU likes and recognizes, though.

Front foot? I think you might be angled wrong.

That came out all wrong - what I mean was "I take the foot closest to the rubber in B/C". My bad for the confusion.

[mazzamouth]

Make this simple... if it is a obvious Uncaught 3rd strike ( like the balls rolls away and everyone can see it) there is no reason to signal safe and verbalize "No catch" as everyone see's the ball on the ground. Just point your right hand out to the side just like a fair ball,

If the ball is very close to where people are not sure, give the safe sign and says "no catch"...

The problem is the PU is trying to do to much, signal a swinging strike, then a no catch, then maybe a tag. it is way to many signals for the PU to make. Make it simple.. it will make you better.

[mstaylor]

Mazz:

That is exactly what I do. Show the strike, show safe and the tag if applicable.

[mazzamouth]

Mazz:

That is exactly what I do. Show the strike, show safe and the tag if applicable.

But you see how much that is.. that is 3 things... They are trying to minimize the amount of signaling we do as umpires.. too much and guys get flustered..LOL

[MidAmUmp]

As the plate umpire - signal the strike, then make a distinct "no catch" mechanic by signaling safe and verbalize "no catch!"

As the base umpire - if you have a no catch, either use an open palm or just give a safe mechanic. No need to state the obvious i.e.: ball back to the screen - if Ray Charles knows the catcher didn't catch it, you don't need to signal it.

if you have a catch, signal an out mechanic as you would on any play on the bases - about shoulder high.

Don't hide your mechanics. The purpose of the mechanic is to assist your partner and get the call right. Also, don't point at the ground on a dropped 3rd strike and use a clinched fist for a catch. On a poorly lit field or in the event of working with a blind umpire, they are not likely to see a single finger and may think you had it as a catch.

zm1283 worked on my crew this year and that's what we did. If he would have signaled a no catch with one finger, I would have given him a one fingered response .

JB

Mid-American Umpire Clinic

[UmpTTS43]

Mazz:

That is exactly what I do. Show the strike, show safe and the tag if applicable.

But you see how much that is.. that is 3 things... They are trying to minimize the amount of signaling we do as umpires.. too much and guys get flustered..LOL

Sometimes you still have to umpire.

[mstaylor]

Mazz:

That is exactly what I do. Show the strike, show safe and the tag if applicable.

But you see how much that is.. that is 3 things... They are trying to minimize the amount of signaling we do as umpires.. too much and guys get flustered..LOL

Who is this "they" of which you speak? MLB was the ones that came up with it to avoid confusion. It adheres to the basic principle of umpiring, call in the order they happened. Batter struck out, show it, catcher missed the ball, show safe, then if he tags the batter, call him out. It is three plays that require three calls.

[mazzamouth]

Mazz:

That is exactly what I do. Show the strike, show safe and the tag if applicable.

But you see how much that is.. that is 3 things... They are trying to minimize the amount of signaling we do as umpires.. too much and guys get flustered..LOL

Who is this "they" of which you speak? MLB was the ones that came up with it to avoid confusion. It adheres to the basic principle of umpiring, call in the order they happened. Batter struck out, show it, catcher missed the ball, show safe, then if he tags the batter, call him out. It is three plays that require three calls.

Umpire school and PBUC...sorry

[mazzamouth]

Mazz:

That is exactly what I do. Show the strike, show safe and the tag if applicable.

But you see how much that is.. that is 3 things... They are trying to minimize the amount of signaling we do as umpires.. too much and guys get flustered..LOL

Who is this "they" of which you speak? MLB was the ones that came up with it to avoid confusion. It adheres to the basic principle of umpiring, call in the order they happened. Batter struck out, show it, catcher missed the ball, show safe, then if he tags the batter, call him out. It is three plays that require three calls.

yes it does, but if you think about how fast all 3 of these things can happen. It looks crazy to see the PU so fast.. signal a strike, safe " no catch" and then a tag on the BR..

[mstaylor]

The whole reason the mechanic came into being was it wasn't being done and it blew up in a critical game.

[noumpere]

If any of the actions is obvious the signal can be skipped to more clearly show the action that wasnt obvious but if all of them are clsoe you might have to signal them all - yes he went, no catch, no tag.

Or thinking about this more (and thats a dangerous thing I know lol) you wouldnt signal no catch if it was a ball so signaling the no catch implies a strike so maybe thats the only signal you need.

I do signal them all and i think id recommend it for amateur ball but i havent seen a video so I dont know what it looks like.

[mstaylor]

My group covered the 4A state finals Friday and that is how the game ended. Swinging strike, dropped ball and the catcher touching the plate. It was bases loaded and two outs, the PU shows the swing, shows safe and out on the touch, looked sharp as hell.

[mazzamouth]

My group covered the 4A state finals Friday and that is how the game ended. Swinging strike, dropped ball and the catcher touching the plate. It was bases loaded and two outs, the PU shows the swing, shows safe and out on the touch, looked sharp as hell.

Yes it can look really good.. but you can get away without signaling the swinging strike, just show the no catch, the the out when F2 touched the plate. Either way is gonna work, but if evaluators can make it simpler or easier for us umpires, it can work.

[zm1283]

As the plate umpire - signal the strike, then make a distinct "no catch" mechanic by signaling safe and verbalize "no catch!"

As the base umpire - if you have a no catch, either use an open palm or just give a safe mechanic. No need to state the obvious i.e.: ball back to the screen - if Ray Charles knows the catcher didn't catch it, you don't need to signal it.

if you have a catch, signal an out mechanic as you would on any play on the bases - about shoulder high.

Don't hide your mechanics. The purpose of the mechanic is to assist your partner and get the call right. Also, don't point at the ground on a dropped 3rd strike and use a clinched fist for a catch. On a poorly lit field or in the event of working with a blind umpire, they are not likely to see a single finger and may think you had it as a catch.

zm1283 worked on my crew this year and that's what we did. If he would have signaled a no catch with one finger, I would have given him a one fingered response .

JB

Mid-American Umpire Clinic

Are you going to teach that one at the clinic this year?