MT73

I have since done some research and a 4th out can only be on an appeal of a missed base or leaving too early.

Yes—never stopped.

Ok gents. Here is something that may add to the confusion. Check out what this says about non appeal 4th out. ‘Are they correct? https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Fourth_out

R3, R2 2 Out Ground ball to SS R3 scores before R 2 is tagged out. 3 Out SS then notices that the B/R tripped and has not yet reached 1B so they throw him out. Is this considered an advantageous 4th out in OBR and/or FED?

Thanks!

Board says I am wrong so—— OBR 2 OUTS R2&R3 Ground ball to SS He bobbles it and R3 scores. ‘They then tag R2 out before he reaches 3rd. ‘I say the run scores. ‘They say it does not. Who is correct?

Exactly. ‘Along with the Wendelstat interpretation posted by Johnnyg08 I would use this from Referee as a guide.

So if R1 misses second base and his teammate runs out and drags him back you’ll allow that?

In July-August one of our 90 foot fields has the sun directly in front of home plate. I have halted the game when the ball is totally blocked by the sun.

Same as a routine ground ball played F6-F3. Even if R3 touched home before B/R was thrown out the run does not count.

On the missed touch of home—-Umpire makes no call and waits for the appeal. ‘As soon as runner is being assisted back to the plate umpire calls him out. ‘Ball stays live. ‘However—-suppose runner touched the plate but his teammates thinks that he missed it and start dragging him back? Since no legally scored run can be taken away we have nothing—unless of course, another runner is trying to score and this action interferes with the defense.

Thanks—and that settles it because had that exception not occurred the runner would have been out. 👍

That sounds right. In OBR I think it says unless deflected by a fielder or an umpire. ‘Sometimes I just get a brain freeze. Thanks. ‘In OBR the position of the fielders is irrelevant. Through or by means through the infielders legs or by his immediate vicinity.

Retired law enforcement. At age 52 I started in 2005. Our league had a work detail rule so I decided to fulfill them by umpiring 3 games. I had coached there before and I thought that I would be gods gift to umpiring. True, I had no training or experience but hey—-how hard could it be? One game taught me reality. I worked the bases for a year and loved it but wanted to be a real umpire and was certified in 2008. I worked for many organizations for 10 years but age and obnoxious parents/coaches have taken their toll. Now I am back at my local complex ( 9 fields) where things are relatively mellow. I still love it. ‘Why—-fun and challenge.

This one has me guessing. ‘Batted ball hits a base and then strikes the runner. ‘Is this an out or is it considered deflected?

Not to beat a dead horse, but while a runner cannot be put out during a dead ball situation he can be declared out by an umpire in some circumstances. Passing a runner and abandonment are some examples. I have also read that a coach assisting a runner back to a base is the 3rd. Since OBR has no distinction between live and dead ball coaches assist I’ll have to mull this one over. ‘Thanks to all.

Well, that’s one way of looking at it.

The only criteria for determining fair or foul is the location of the ball and not the fielders feet. Which part of the double bag did the ball go over? The white part on the left or the colored part on the right?

You have a better memory than I. And many thanks. ‘This does rankle my sense of fairness ( denying the defense a chance for an appeal) but that’s baseball.

But wouldn’t grappling the kid back to a missed base be seen as giving an advantage to the offense?

Actually it is to settle an argument. ‘Let’s say the coach grabbed the runner and pulled him back to the base. ‘Can he be called out for being assisted when the ball is dead?

Runner hits home run. ‘While he is trotting around 3rd he misses the base. ‘Coach taps him and tells him to touch the base. ‘Even though it’s a dead ball is he out?

Well, that settles it. ‘Thanks.

Exactly. ‘The only thing umpires must remember is that the force is off and any advancing runner must be tagged.

Just because a runner can be put out by just stepping on a base does not necessarily make it a force play. An appeal of a missed base or runner leaving early is the prime examples.