gdpmumin

My thoughts exactly, carolinablue.

"4-3, kid. Play."

There is no crying in baseball. I tried to teach my t-ball player son that this season. It was hot, about two days after a massive storm took the roof off the dugout his team was using, and they were getting no shelter from the sun. He wasn't the only one crying about being hot and sweaty and thirsty. But I looked at him and said, "Son, I know you're hot. I am, too. But there's no crying in baseball." He responded, "How do you know?" <_<

Dixie Youth Baseball, actually. There have been many times, however, that I would have preferred to be setup inside. But given the shortness of the field, I'm sure that would be a rather dangerous prospect.

This is where my inexperience comes in. Does that include F3? I've read that rule many times and thought of game situations where it might happen that the ball had no chance to pass a fielder before hitting an umpire and haven't been able to come up with any. I mean, it seems that it will almost always pass at least F3 before it gets to the umpire, even umpires who set up inside. For my purposes, because I set up outside when I'm BU, there really is no chance that it won't pass a fielder before getting to me, even if I bust in on a play. So this is an academic exercise for me. But I would at least like to know how to handle it. How could it pass F3 (1st Baseman) if your in B or C with runners on and the ball is hit at you? F3 is no where near the play. Also if your in "A" you better be set up behind F3 and in Foul Territory. Then if the ball hits you after it passes F3 you either have a Live Ball or a Foul. If you are always setting up outside as BU you must be working 60' Little League games only. My BU partner was drilled in the stomach by a line drive last Sunday while in the B position with R1. Adult AAA Ball. He was lucky that he got some of his body turned so it was not a direct shot. My first reaction was yelling Time and checking on my partner. Then we placed R1 on 2nd and BR on 1st. Play Bah! Sorry. Meant F1, dangit! F1, not F3. Brain went to sleep as I typed that response. So, the question should be, does F1 count as a fielder when calculating whether the ball has passed a fielder prior to hitting an umpire?

This is where my inexperience comes in. Does that include F3? I've read that rule many times and thought of game situations where it might happen that the ball had no chance to pass a fielder before hitting an umpire and haven't been able to come up with any. I mean, it seems that it will almost always pass at least F3 before it gets to the umpire, even umpires who set up inside. For my purposes, because I set up outside when I'm BU, there really is no chance that it won't pass a fielder before getting to me, even if I bust in on a play. So this is an academic exercise for me. But I would at least like to know how to handle it.

Here is something to fit nicely in your ball bag. http://www.ump-attir...Product_Count=3 Looks like a great product. I'll definitely look into that. Thanks for the link.

I'm not going to dispute the logic behind your suggestion, yawetag, because it's obviously wise. I'm just wondering about the logistics of it. There isn't much room to carry a notepad and pen in your ball bag. You might use the lineup card, but in DYB, umpires are by rule forbidden to carry a lineup card. So I don't have anything to write with or on when I'm on the field. The first chance I would have to write notes about an ejection would actually not be until after the game. I know when talking through game situations in post-games with my partner we don't always remember the exact inning in which certain things happened. Don't know what system the OP's son is calling in, but it's possible he didn't have the means to make notes, either.

Two thoughts: 1) Doesn't the runner have to step into the dugout or something for it to be considered abandonment? As I understand the OP, BR was still on the field. 2) It's LL. He misunderstood the call. Call time, lecture the runner, put him back on first. No out. It's not like he committed to second base and got caught in the act of attempting to obtain a base.

I went to an Augusta GreenJackets (Single A affiliate of the SF Giants) game Saturday night and really enjoyed watching the two-man system done well. Two things I noticed about the PU: 1) PU always had his thumb out, but it wasn't part of the signal. In other words, for signaling two outs to his partner, he used the index and middle fingers, but the thumb was also out. That would actually confuse me until I got used to working with that partner. 2) His strike call was a point to the right. He pivoted on both feet simultaneously to the right and made his strike call with the index finger pointing ahead. Again, the thumb was extended, so he was basically pointing a gun. Aside from those two quirks (and the fact that both umpires appeared to be half my age--and I'm only 38), they really worked well together and I learned a lot from watching them. And the game was good, too.

Suggestions on specific indicators for this? I like the one I have (Diamond chrome) because it doesn't feel cheap like the plastic ones. It's a 3-2-2 (good) but it shows strikes first (bad). All the ones I've seen (or paid attention to, I guess) were strike first indicators.

Wow. Seeing that brings to mind the myth about a tie going to the runner were true. That's about as close as it gets. I still think I would have an out there.

That's what got me. The grin. Hernandez knew full well what he was doing. The arguments have convinced me that there's probably no call here, but seeing the grin (I'm sure I would not have seen it in live action if I were PU), I really want to call him out.

I understand this is a highly subjective call, and I can definitely understand that some may not have interference here for a variety of good reasons, but, really? He doesn't know where the fielder is? Anywhere else on the field and I would give you that argument. But not at home plate. Hernandez knows with precision where the fielder is. He knows where F2 is in relation to the ball and he knows he's exactly between the two.

I have interference. I don't know why shielding F2 from picking up the ball would be any different than an interference call on any other base.

I think I figured out what my partner was suggesting I do. He was wanting me to drift closer to the mound to be in position for a call at any base. What I was doing without realizing it was drifting closer to 3B, ultimately abandoning any potential play at first. He wasn't asking me not to make the call at 3B (because technically he's required to stay home if there's a runner in scoring position); he was helping me get into a better position for all bases. Once I replayed my actions in my mind and realized I was drifting too far to third, his comments made sense. He and I work a couple of games together Tuesday, so it'll be another learning experience. My goal is get fewer things wrong each time I take the field.

South Carolina Dixie Youth umpire manual states, "Each Umpire will USE a ball/strike indicator in each game." Written just like that. It's a little vague. Do they mean each Plate Umpire? Or every single Umpire who's on the field? I take it to mean every umpire on the field. But this is rarely the case in our league. One PU (actually our assignor and a friend of mine) I work with says, "I don't want you to carry an indicator. I don't even want it your pocket." He's also warned me that when we call games together and I'm PU and he's BU, if I go to him for a pitch count verification, he's flashing up 4-3. "That's your job," he says. Ok, so he doesn't want his BU to carry an indicator. He's never lost the count? Wow! Must be really new huh? How do you suppose he'd find out the count if he lost track? Oh, no. He admits he has lost count on occasion. And when he does, whatever's on his indicator is the official count.

Honestly, I can't remember if there was R1. Pretty sure there was, so that would have made R1 and R2 at TOP. Either way, C was the position I was supposed to start in. According to DYB mechanics anyway. Do other systems handle that differently?

What was the situation for you to get blocked out? Why did you "defer" to your partner, and what steps did you take? What could you have done to prevent being blocked out? Were you in the right spot initially? If so, what could you have done to get a better secondary spot when you found the primary wasn't going to work? Answering those questions will lead you to not missing the call next time. Those are excellent questions, yawetag. The situation was a very close play at third. I had been in C (Dixie Youth base umps start "outside") and busted in. R2 had rounded third, stopped, and tried to get back to third. R2 slid and because the throw was a little off and took extra time, F6 slid, too, to try get the tag. F6 completely blocked me out. I couldn't see the ball and could only see a little part of the back side of the bag. PU had come up the line and I simply pointed to him. He made the call. The only other position I could have been in to see this play properly would have been in foul territory. I would have never made it and as far as I know there's not a mechanic for getting there. I've thought since then that getting closer to the bag might have helped, but then there would have been a big risk of umpire interference. I need to clarify with him (we have two games together on Tuesday). Something he said in post-game made me think it might have been his call to begin with. The way he was talking, it seemed like he would take all calls at home and third if there were runners on (except third base calls involving BR). I would take BR all the way to third and hand him off. Now, he may have also said that in pre-game and I didn't pick up on it. I don't think he did, and those mechanics are slightly different than the ones I've studied. So I need to clarify what it is he wants me to do. You guys may have some advice here, too. As BU, am I responsible for calls at 3B or do I leave those to PU? At any rate, if it was his call to begin with, he ended up making it anyway. If it was my call, I got blocked out and as far as I can tell, there wasn't a position I could have been in that would have improved my line of sight.

South Carolina Dixie Youth umpire manual states, "Each Umpire will USE a ball/strike indicator in each game." Written just like that. It's a little vague. Do they mean each Plate Umpire? Or every single Umpire who's on the field? I take it to mean every umpire on the field. But this is rarely the case in our league. One PU (actually our assignor and a friend of mine) I work with says, "I don't want you to carry an indicator. I don't even want it your pocket." He's also warned me that when we call games together and I'm PU and he's BU, if I go to him for a pitch count verification, he's flashing up 4-3. "That's your job," he says. Ok, so he doesn't want his BU to carry an indicator. The PU I worked with last night told me he didn't care one way or the other. I did, and I used it. But I doubt I'll do it again unless specifically requested to do so by the PU I'm working with.

I'm a new umpire this year. Last night I was BU for a Dixie Youth Majors game and the PU I worked with couldn't have been a better partner. The game was a great game. Couple of close plays. Mechanically, I didn't get everything right, but I'm getting better because of guys like the one I worked with last. He was willing to say, "In that situation, what you want to do is..." He was kind and helpful. In fact, on one call, I thought I had hung him out to dry by deferring to him and he said, "Nope. You were blocked out, no way you could have seen it. You knew I would have seen it. You did the right thing." I've worked with another PU who is so used to calling games by himself he basically pretended I wasn't even on the field. Well, that is until a lightning delay, and he comes out to restart the game without his mask. We only have time for a few pitches after the restart before the skies opened up and we have to suspend the game. Then he gets on to me for letting him drop behind the plate without a mask. Maybe I should have noticed that, but how about a little help on what you see I'm doing right and what I'm doing wrong? Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks to the experienced umpires who take time to help us new guys learn the ropes.:clap:

Maybe it was Throwback Day in Arlington but instead of wearing old uniforms, the players (both teams) decided to pretend they were in LL again. Not only did Bautista (R2) try for third while it was occupied, notice later in the play R1 tried for second while Bautista was there. That went unmentioned in the coverage. It worked out for Toronto, but sloppy play by both teams.

This would have been a type A OBS, in which case the runner is the one being played and, if obstructed, gets at least 1 base beyond the last base legally touched. In this case, he was awarded 2B because his last legally touch base was 1B. I was more impressed that the play-by-play announcers got the call right. They actually called it obstruction rather than the usual "interference." UmpJM, I was surprised the discussion took so long, too. Not sure what else there was to talk about.

You're exactly right. I didn't identify DYB as the rule set I was referring to. When I posted to this thread, I had just responded in another thread and clearly indicated there I was DYB, and I must have thought I had done so here, too. My apologies for adding to the confusion. :(

Just for clarification (if there is any in this situation), most of you guys are talking about Little League rules. I was not. I was talking about Dixie Youth Baseball rules, which are often quite different from other systems. In DYB, if a runner leaves the base before the ball reaches the plate--not the catcher, not the batter, the plate--the defensive coach has a number of options available to him. One of those options is runner is out. Other options include nullification of the entire play on which which the runner left early or only portions of the play. For example, if a run scores and there was an out on the play, DC can opt to nullify the run but keep the out. I'll need to check to see if the runner who scored is sent back to base, but I think he just disappears, not unlike the "poof play" others mentioned. Also, the umpire only calls a runner leaving early if the hit is not a pop fly. If the hit is a pop fly to outfield, we do not call the runner for leaving early. We specifically have to wait for the defensive coach to appeal the play. If we see the runner leave early, we make the call on appeal. If we did not see the runner leave early, play stands. I know it sounds weird, and I know it's a lot different from the systems you guys are used to calling, but it is the way DYB rules are set up. I find them to be a bit confusing, but it is the way it is. This situation is fortunately quite rare. I've never seen it called and I know it would never be called in a one man system because the PU is unlikely to see the runner leave early.