SoCal Lurker

When/why would an umpire "fix" BOO?

Rule reads: 6.07 BATTING OUT OF TURN. (a) A batter shall be called out, on appeal, when he fails to bat in his proper turn, and another batter completes a time at bat in his place. So I don't see how you could have done anything wrong. (Nor do I see how there could be a protest -- what exception would permit the protest if it wasn't raised before the next pitch.) -SCL (aka daddy-coach, so take with a grain of salt . . .)

Not being familiar with LL, what ARE the optional rules? Out here at the base, they don't call it anything (meaning: Pony, LL, Dixie, USSSA, whatever), and it's just played as "Youth Sports." In the 9-10 group - which I believe is equivalent to LL Minor, it's no D3K, but they DO keep IFF. Worse, never mind it's a closed base, but they don't even allow for advancement on a WP/PB. A kid can only advance on a walk or batted ball. Don't know why. DOES keep the score, down, though. The 11-12, they bring back stealing, and add the D3K. However, if a kid leaves the base early, he's called out. I'm guessing that these aren't following the LL rulebook for the respective age group. Not that they claim a LL charter, but it is a strange hybrid of, well, everything. Those are not close to LL rules. LL closed bases cannot create an out, R just can't advance, except as forced, and there is a wierd way, I believe on an infield grounder, if a runner leaves early and everyone is safe, the run doesn't score -- the runner goes "poof" (try to score that one . . . ) In theory, as I understand it, a local LL can change anything. BUT certain changes require a variance to be granted by the grand-high-mucky-mucks. Other changes are permitted per the rule book by local decision. I'm sure Rich can give a more exhaustive explanation.

How can you have that certainty without even knowing the level of ball. The umpires for the game were uncertain enough about the call to post here to be sure, so why assume that the coach knew how the rule applied to D3K? (Had a Bronco game for which I was assistant coach and scorekeeper [yeah, I know, but it's rec], and with R1, R3 2 outs, F4 tagged the runner going to second; U told me it was a time play because it was tag instead of a force so the run [for our team] scored -- our manager thought that was right, and the manager of the other team was expaining to his team why the U was right. I was pretty sure the run shouldn't count, but what am I gonna do, argue with the U about it?) I'd be careful about attributing malice where ignorance is an awfully good explanation. The more I understand the rules, the more I understand how little so many understand about the rules. -SCL (aka a daddy-coach trying not to be a rat)

There is an old-time pro baseball story -- don't recall the umpire or the batte., but I be lieve it was player with a reputation for a good eye. Ball. Ball. Strike. Batter "That's right where the first two were!" U: "Really?" "Yeah." "You sure?" "Yeah. . . . . "Strike 3, yer out!"

Ya know, having tried to get kids to do certain things, based just on what you wrote, I wouldn't be at all surprised (especailly in a blow out) if the coach really was exasperated at a kid he's been working with swinging at a pitch like that rather than with your checked swing call. I know when I'm coaching, I'm a hekuva lot more focussed on what my kids are doing than on what the ref/umpire is doing.

Tweet! T. Why? It isn't the coach's job to police the stands unless the league/tournament specifically call for it to be handled that way. I would have told her the same thing. Maybe I misread what he was saying, but sure sounds like he was saying that the league rules required it. In any league I've coached that puts the responsibility on the coach, I've never had any compunction about shutting down inappropriate parents from my team. (Nor as a referee in directinig coaches to do it.)

Tweet! T.

Unless they are paying $40 a game and lots of them don't go much past and 1 1/2 hrs due to run rules. Plus, as we have seen, they can be very entertaining. How about the dropped IFF? Now that's fun. I rarely call the IFF below 12u... If no one has made a catch all game, how can I determine something to be an "easily caught pop up"? Nothing is "easily caught" at that level. I waffle on the little dudes on whether IFF should apply. Part of me thinks that they should modify FO 10 and under so that (1) no IFF, but (2) no DP may occur on what would have been an IFF -- make the kids catch the ball. But then I think how hard it is to explain to some people what an IFF is (Coach last night in a Bronco (12u) questioned no IFF w/ runners at the corners . . .), and I can't imagine trying to explain an alteration to the IFF rule . . .

Does that mean different zones for different pitchers in the same game?

Amen. Rather have a trained ump, but hey, kids can have fun even if the ump screws up . . . those who get out there and to their best without training deserve respect for trying.

So, is this a semantics thing? I don't work true LL, think I only have once or twice. What's the difference between a LL umpire and an umpire who works LL? IIRC from when I read LL rules a coupel of years ago, LLs are encourged to use volunteer umpires, but permitted to pay them during tleague play. But the official LL tournaments are prohibited from paying umpires. (AYSO has a complete bar on paying referees -- that works out in some regions and is a serious challenge in others.)

According to the announcers they can NOT overturn that call. I think the announcers are right about that in major leagues. It would or at least should be different in all of the levels we do of course. I'm lost -- why couldn't the 1B overtturn his call if he spoke to the PU who told him F3 was a foot off the bag?

Obviously if you have a partner, you can go to the partner -- without a partrner would anyone check with the scorer, or is that verboten? (Or do you just figure if it's a game that you don't have a partner your scorekeeper is going to be suspect or biased anyway?) Just curious.

that's why it's called the foul line, right? :rollinglaugh:

You lost me -- why would yo do that? Since B1 is now BOO, why wouldn't you pitch to him and see what happens -- unless he make an out, then raise the issue as B9 will be out for not taking his turn to bat. What am I missing?

Variations on the theme of "must slide" have gotta be amongst the worst understood rules out there. I watched a very strange "double play" in a minors LL game . . . ump called out two separate runners for not sliding into home while the ball was in the outfield. *sigh* Sometimes volunteers are just still learning . . .

. . . and yet, year after year, in league after league, they institute these illegal rules with no clue. The league I was recently UIC of had one of these types of rules in every division. When I told them I would instruct my umpires to ignore any/all league-created 'must slide' rules, they were pretty upset until I told them we could lose our LL charter over it. Of course, the 'must-slide' rule myth still permeates that league; I did my best to kill the beast, but it . . . just . . . wouldn't . . . . . . die. Had a recent PONY game (Mustang - that's 9-10 year olds), where a player on my son's team was called out because he avoided the catcher instead of sliding. I asked the ump (its pretty low key) if the rule wasn't side or avoid. He said he's been calling must slide if there is a play for a couple of years and must be what the league wants. (Being new to ONY, I looked -- rule is written "slide or avoid." So be it . . . it's 9 and 10 year olds.)