txump81

I agree. Probably intentional on Cabrera, however, it did look like it got away, so PU gave him the benefit of the doubt. I have seen many times a warning issued and then a pitcher has one accidentally get away and WHOOSH!!! A few times it looks like it could have been OK to let it go. What happened after that should have been an EJ without hesitation. A pitch behind a batter is never an accident. Just glad the benches stayed put. Then what does PU do?

Good position. Watch him follow the ball in and then turn his head to see the runner as he adjusts to the play.

Here is the video clip if anyone is interested. Part 2 will follow that shows the defensive response.

I heard a commentator argue yesterday that Players in MLB are allowed to argue calls as long as it is not balls and strikes. I nearly threw something at the TV.

I just rewatched the play in question. PU tells batter to get back in the box after the conference and then you hear him say to back out. It is then that PU goes to the screen. From what I know about umpiring, you don't tell a kid to get in the box and then tell him to step out just because you want to check with someone outside the fence. I think the "explanation" from LL is complete hogwash(to keep it mild). After you hear him tell the batter to step back out, he just turns his head and is listening to someone behind the screen. Then he goes to the fence. Time for LL to put down the shovel.

See below from LL's facebook page. Not exactly what I remember. Sounds like a CYA statement to me. The call on the field was not overruled by anyone. Here is what actually happened... In the sixth inning, an inside pitch was ruled by the Umpire-in-Chief (Plate Umpire) as a ball. The batter reacted a...s if the ball had struck his foot. The offensive team’s manager properly requested that other umpires be consulted to determine if the pitch hit the batter. While the umpires were meeting, Corey Wright (the Assistant Tournament Director at the game, and the Eastern Region Assistant Director) and Mike Lantierre (the volunteer Umpire Consultant for that game), watched ESPN’s replay from separate locations, and it appeared to both of them that the ball did indeed hit the batter. After consulting with the other umpires on the field, it was determined that none of the umpires could conclusively say the ball hit the batter. However, the plate umpire was still not sure the correct call was made, and he asked Mr. Wright and Mr. Lantierre if they could offer any assistance. While such a request is unorthodox, it is not unique and did not violate any rule or regulation. Another more common example of such an inquiry is when the Umpire-in-Chief of a game requests assistance from a league or tournament official on the status or an approaching storm. While the ultimate decision in that case – and regarding the incident on the field described above – rests solely with the umpire, there is nothing in Little League Rules or Regulations that prevents an umpire from requesting assistance from a game official. (There is, however, a prohibition against “mingling” with spectators, which would prevent an umpire from seeking assistance from a fan at the game.) Mr. Wright and Mr. Lantierre stressed to the Umpire-in-Chief that the call was ultimately his alone to make, but that it appeared to them that the batter was hit by the pitch. The umpire replied that it was important to make the correct call, so he ruled that the pitch hit the batter, awarding the batter first base. Mr. Wright and Mr. Lantierre, as game officials, did not attempt to overrule the umpires on the field, nor were they instructed to do so. They merely offered assistance to the Umpire-in-Chief when requested. In response to the email circulating from Soucy: Also, incidentally, Mr. Soucy's comments noted above (in the email) were made before he had a chance to know the full story. Unfortunately, others without knowledge of the full story also spoke or wrote without knowing the facts. As a result, we're glad to clear up the issue with our statement above.

Agree with you here. The only argument MLB network is using for a fair ball is where the ball landed. Is this their first year in baseball? Even before I started umpiring, I knew that on a ground ball, it is where the ball is when it passes the base. Also MLB had the Marlins announcer call in, and he said it not only coast the Marlins the game, but cost Atlanta a game also as Philly gained on them in the NL East race. They are wanting him to come out and "man-up" and say he kicked it. They also were hammering Davidson for not following the ball after it passed 3B. It doesn't matter after it passes the bag. I can't tell either way from any of the angles I saw. Davidson had the best seat and he watched it at exactly the point where it matters, as it passes the bag. Gonna have to go with him on this one.

My thoughts exactly. Since the batter reached base and each runner advanced at least one base, ignore the balk. BR out for the 3rd out before reaching 1B, no runs score.

And if you tell the batter to proceed to first and they refuse and stay in the box...?

I always think about the no mistakes when a bad call is made. Especially when a coach comes out to question something. I always think, "so, when you sent that runner from third and they were out by 3 steps, did I come to you and chew you out". Or when I hear someone complain about an umpire I'll ask them if there were any mistakes. Just saying... Position should have been better, but it wasn't. I hope he learned something.

He made that one easy. Buh-bye.

Watched the video. In real time, a very difficult call. Slo-mo makes it easy. IMO, based upon his position, he couldn't see the tag. Even from the very first camera view in real time, I had difficulty seeing the tag and that view was a better angle. He was straight-lined and couldn't see. And yes, he probably could have gotten a better angle. #2, did this change the outcome of the game...no other mistakes were made by anyone?

If you looked at a copy of the house rules and there was nothing in it saying the ball was dead, play on, you're right. Another problem with house rules...

Welcome. This is a great place to gain and share knowledge.

Keep up the good work. It seems like, in my area, once a rat always a rat. I have several guys I have done games with that should know things and how to act since they umpire, but act just like any other rat. Disclosure: I made a generalization based upon my experience. That is not to say all coaches are like that. But, there is a reason they have received the nickname rat.

Exactly one of the reasons I try to keep the ball live unless absolutely needed(Foul, visit, or legitimate request). Baseball is baseball, pay attention. Worked with a guy last night that would call TIME after every hit. To each his own, just not my style.

I had a similar situation the other night, but the umpire was a spectator and his daughter was on the team. Had a girl dive back into 1B on a line drive to F3. F3 and R1 got tangled up and F3 did the hold the tag on the runner manuever as R1 was getting up. As R1 finally is standing up, I see R1 get pushed off the base by F3. Girl starts crying from the push. DC comes out and wants the out as "R1 was off the base". I get together with my partners, everyone saw the same thing I did so I tell the coach we have nothing but the push off the bag and I'm not giving him an out for that. Then DC wants interference on R1. Just baseball coach. BTW, DC is an umpire also. Then I hear the fan(umpire) yell at the top of his lungs, that I blew that call. I just ignore outside comments and laugh later. However, the next day I get a game with this guy and the first thing he says to me is, "You blew that call last night and cost us 2 runs". It's one thing if I ask him as an umpire, its different if he initiates the conversation as an involved party. I was not very happy but let it go. To me, I think an umpire needs to have more restraint than that. I also had to talk to the above DC in another game as he was arguing with fans outside the fence as 3BC. I realize everyone is human, but as an umpire, you are held to a higher standard and no matter what happens when you are a coach or spectator, you should always maintain a cool head as if you were on the field. Sorry for the rant...Thoughts?

I had a loser's bracket game last night in our Sectional 11-12 LLSB tournament. Needless to say the losing team's fans didn't agree with anything. Their batter's were setting up as far back in the box as possible so the drop in the pitch made it look to them that I was calling strikes below the knees. Also heard a fan after a pitch bounced between a batter's legs say "That's another one ya'll missed blue". We were wearing red and I heard a fan yell something like "Come on blue I mean red, get it right". I just laugh inside. And heard the classic, "You just don't like (insert town name here)." I did have a great play at the plate. Girl coming home and jumps into her slide. Catcher has the ball and tags the girl in the air. Never expected that at this age.

Coach: "The OFFICIAL book has 3 balls" Me: "I've got four" (and so does my OFFICIAL indicator)

I found this post on "my .02.....Long two cents" interesting and have nominated it accordingly for "Post Of The Month July, 2010"

I just found where my confusion is coming from. I am crossing over Type A and Type B. Type A is one base from the last base legally touched before the obstruction. Type B's award is up to the umpire to negate the OBS. I was combining the two. In my scenario, I pointed and called OBS, but after 2B thought it was nullified. The BR did beat the throw to the plate and scored so the OBS penalty was nullified. On a side note, the DC came out and wanted the BR to be called out for running into her fielder. I continue to be amazed at what some coaches think.

Yes it is a LL rule 7.13. You're right it makes no sense at all. What would keep a coach from having a runner lead off and start stealing home if the actions of a runner can't affect the trailing runners? (In LL Majors and below the runner can't leave until the ball reaches the batter) I don't know what or where his interpretation came from and the coaches didn't have a problem with his lack of enforcement of the rule. I was hoping a coach would have protested so at least we could have gotten the rule right, but no such luck...most of the coaches in our area don't know the rules that well.

I am trying to learn how the obstruction penalty should be awarded. After reading 7.06, I was under the impression that if the Type B obstructed runner reaches the next base beyond the obstruction, OBS is ignored and the runner is advancing beyond that WITH liability to be put out. I will give another example. This is 9-10 you girls. Batter hit a shot to the gap in right-center field that went to the fence. As she rounds 1B, she runs into F3 who is not paying attention. This contact causes her to stutter step and almost stop. She continues on and advances to HP with a close play. If she is thrown out at the plate, do you award the BR HP due to the OBS or after 2B is the OBS ignored? I will clarify and say, this was a clean hit and the outfielders were very shallow, so the BR's HR would be legit.

He scored both and let the BR stay at 2B under the interpretation that a runner leaving early can't affect the runners behind him. I told him we could look it up later, but he blew it off with some comment about you can look it up if you want but you're wrong. On the field I couldn't remember the # but now I know 7.13.

Along the same lines as the OP...What do you do when a senior umpire basically overrules you on a rules call? Sitch: LLBB 10-11yo. R2 and R3. I am BU. PU is a senior umpire. R3 leaves as the pitcher releases the ball. I drop my hankerchief and watch and the Batter hits a soft fly that lands behind the pitchers mound and never leaves the infield. R3 scores, R2 scores, BR reaches 2B on a bad throw. As the play concludes, I call TIME and try to place BR back at 1B, and return R2 and R3 to their positions. This is a textbook 7.13 rules violation. He comes to me in the middle of placing runners and tells me that the runner leaving early can't affect anyone behind him. I try once to tell him the rule and that it is start out of the book, and he says you can look at the book if you want, but you are wrong. I drop it as I don't want to make a scene on the field. Between innings, he brings it up and says that's why coaches send R3 early as it doesn't affect anyone behind them. I just dropped it and probably won't bring it up to him ever as he got very defensive. I did ask our UIC and he told me PU gave him a different story and said it was a double, and UIC gave me advise to never argue with a senior umpire. How would you have handled this?