Two runners on the same base?

[keydetpiper]

The rules say if this happens, the preceding runner is entitled to the base. I'm ok with this generally, but does this also apply to force situations?

Ex: R1, R2. Ground ball to the infield, forcing the runners to advance. R2 doesn't run and stays on the base, R1 arrives safely at 2B, so both runners occupy it simultaneously. Seems to me that if they're tagged, R2 should be out due to the force situation.

Can you help me get this straight in my head? Thanks.

[grayhawk]

You have it right. If it's a force, the preceding runner is out if both are tagged on the base.

[Mr Umpire]

If the runner is forced, he does not have legal right to the base.

If the runner forcing him is called out prior to that runner getting tagged or the base he is forced to is tagged, then he has legal right to the original base. Once the force is removed, he has legal right to the original base. This goes for if another runner is tagged which removes the force as well. Such as R1, R2. Batter hits ball to F6 who throws BR out at 1B. Meanwhile, R1 is standing on 2B with R2. The force is removed so R2 still has legal right and R1 better get back to 1B before being tagged.

While the force is still in place, he does not have legal right to the original base. If he is tagged even while in contact with that base, he is out. If the trail runner is already on the base, then the trail runner cannot be called out if tagged.

Basically, if force is on and both runners are tagged while in contact with the base, lead runner is out. If force is removed and both are tagged, trail runner is out. If lead runner is on the base but trail runner is not on the base yet, then the lead runner can be tagged and he will be out. Then, the defense can still tagged the base and get the trail runner too and get a DP.

[noumpere]

The rules say if this happens, the preceding runner is entitled to the base. I'm ok with this generally, but does this also apply to force situations?

You need to read a little farther into the rule. The rule says "except 7.03(B)" which talks specifically about the force play you asked about.

[keydetpiper]

Basically, if force is on and both runners are tagged while in contact with the base, lead runner is out. If force is removed and both are tagged, trail runner is out. If lead runner is on the base but trail runner is not on the base yet, then the lead runner can be tagged and he will be out. Then, the defense can still tagged the base and get the trail runner too and get a DP.

As in: Ground ball to F6, R2 is daydreaming and stands on the base, F6 tags R2 (out because he's forced) then steps on the base to force out R1. That would upset at least one coach ("HOW CAN HE BE OUT IF HE'S STILL ON THE BASE?"), but them's the rules.

Now if F6 does it in the other order (steps on the base then tags R2), R2 is not out because the force was removed by retiring R1. I think I'm getting this.

[Mr Umpire]

Basically, if force is on and both runners are tagged while in contact with the base, lead runner is out. If force is removed and both are tagged, trail runner is out. If lead runner is on the base but trail runner is not on the base yet, then the lead runner can be tagged and he will be out. Then, the defense can still tagged the base and get the trail runner too and get a DP.

As in: Ground ball to F6, R2 is daydreaming and stands on the base, F6 tags R2 (out because he's forced) then steps on the base to force out R1. That would upset at least one coach ("HOW CAN HE BE OUT IF HE'S STILL ON THE BASE?"), but them's the rules.

Now if F6 does it in the other order (steps on the base then tags R2), R2 is not out because the force was removed by retiring R1. I think I'm getting this.

You got it.

[wek29]

There one I hope I never have to call...:D

[mtnump]

Basically, if force is on and both runners are tagged while in contact with the base, lead runner is out. If force is removed and both are tagged, trail runner is out. If lead runner is on the base but trail runner is not on the base yet, then the lead runner can be tagged and he will be out. Then, the defense can still tagged the base and get the trail runner too and get a DP.

As in: Ground ball to F6, R2 is daydreaming and stands on the base, F6 tags R2 (out because he's forced) then steps on the base to force out R1. That would upset at least one coach ("HOW CAN HE BE OUT IF HE'S STILL ON THE BASE?"), but them's the rules.

Now if F6 does it in the other order (steps on the base then tags R2), R2 is not out because the force was removed by retiring R1. I think I'm getting this.

:hi5:

[kcfan102]

There one I hope I never have to call...

Had it yesterday :)

[mstaylor]

Hopefully you won't have to call it but if you do then you will get it right the first time. This is what this board is all about.

[wek29]

Hopefully you won't have to call it but if you do then you will get it right the first time. This is what this board is all about.

Great point! Not only will I get it right, I'll get it right because I WILL be watching the order of the of the tags. (Runner vs. base)

[Forest Ump]

Hopefully you won't have to call it but if you do then you will get it right the first time. This is what this board is all about.

Great point! Not only will I get it right, I'll get it right because I WILL be watching the order of the of the tags. (Runner vs. base)

and if you make this call, You come right up to the base and point clearly at the runner who is out and say you are out and then point to the safe runner and say you are safe. You don't want to make the call from some distance because it will confuse the runners.

[ukce1861]

Forest, I thought you called the runner safe first, and then called the out?

[yawetag]

Forest, I thought you called the runner safe first, and then called the out?

Call them in the order of the tags.

[Forest Ump]

Forest, I thought you called the runner safe first, and then called the out?

Call them in the order of the tags.

Right on.

[wek29]

You know I'll see this now....and the S#$@ storm that will follow!