Runner Touched By Batted Ball

[moblue]

I was watching a HS Varsity game last week where R1 was hit with a batted ball halfway between first and second. F4 was directly behind R1 when R1 touched the ball. Play continued and the difference in the BR being thrown out was that F4 had to go to the ball and field it. The umpires called the R1 out, but allowed BR to stay. I know the game was FED, but I looked in OBR and found that 7.08(f) makes no mention of other players being out, and 7.09(f) requires the interference to be intentional before the BR can be called out.

8-4-2k in FED doesn't mention the BR being out either. Is he supposed to be given 1B even if the umpire judges that he would have been out? This seems like a basic call that has probably been brought up before, but I searched for it and didn't find anything.

Thanks in advance.

Note: I know I mentioned play continued after contact, but I will give the umpires the benefit of the doubt that a dead ball was called, and the players didn't hear it.

[LMSANS]

If a runner is hit by a batted ball before it passes a fielder, then it is a dead ball, the runner is out and the BR is awarded 1B. Any other runners are returned to TOP unless forced by the BR award.

I don't have my rule book handy, but that's it in a nutshell.

[Mr Umpire]

6.08(d) covers the BR getting 1B if a runner/umpire is touched by a fair batted ball. Unless the runner does it intentionally, then only 1 out is given to the defense regardless if the umpire judges 2 outs would have been made.

7.09(k) covers if the runner is touched by a batted ball with the penalty below which says the ball is dead immediately.

This is for OBR. I don't know what FED has but I would assume(a$$ out of yoU and ME if they are completely screwed up in their ruling) they have it the same on a non-intentional INT of a batted ball.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Mr Umpire

[mstaylor]

Fed is the same, kill the ball, call the runner out, return any other runners not forced and award BR first.

[moblue]

Thanks everyone. What I don't understand is why the BR is still allowed first base. I know that's what the rules say, but it's the logic behind it that I don't understand. Is it because the out and returning all other runners to TOP positions is supposed to negate the interference?

[Mr Umpire]

IMO, it is b/c it is not the BR fault that the runner got hit. Why penalize him for the runner's mistake? The out is the only punishment needed since it was not intentional. If it is intentional, then that is a different story and will result in stiffer penalties to make sure it doesn't happen again.

But, for a mistake, simply penalize the one who did it and not others. This is just my opinion of why the BR gets 1B and all others return to TOP base.

[daled]

Here is a question on the same type of situation.

BR is running down the 1B line and the batted ball lands in fair territory backspins into foul territory and hits BR.

Is he safe or out?

[Umpire in Chief]

Where is the runner when it hits him? Fair=Out, Foul=Foul

[Mr Umpire]

Here is a question on the same type of situation.

BR is running down the 1B line and the batted ball lands in fair territory backspins into foul territory and hits BR.

Is he safe or out?

If it is completely unintentional, then it depends on where the ball is when it hits him. If in foul territory, foul ball. If in fair, BR is out. If intentional, regardless of fair or foul, BR is out. All runners return to base at TOP.

[daled]

BR is in on the line (fair territory). Yes it was unintentional "it just happened". I was UIC and as I came from behind the plate I did not see it hit him. The ball appeared to cross in front of the BR. I called foul ball. The BU who was in position A did not say anything. After the inning was over he came to me and said the ball hit the BR and I told him the call should have been BR out. He said no because the ball was crossing into foul territory we agreed to disagree and continued on with the game. I just wanted to make sure that I had it correct.

[Mr Umpire]

Where is the runner when it hits him? Fair=Out, Foul=Foul

I think it needs to be revised. It doesn't matter where the runner is. It matters where the ball is. Remember, the rule is if a fair ball hits the runner(6.05(g) and 7.08(f)).

[Umpire in Chief]

I think it needs to be revised. It doesn't matter where the runner is. It matters where the ball is. Remember, the rule is if a fair ball hits the runner(6.05(g) and 7.08(f)).

Semantics, but agreed.:clap:

[noumpere]

Thanks everyone. What I don't understand is why the BR is still allowed first base. I know that's what the rules say, but it's the logic behind it that I don't understand. Is it because the out and returning all other runners to TOP positions is supposed to negate the interference?

Where else are you going to put him? He became a runner, so his time at bat is over. He wasn't put out. He's not out because of something someone else did. The ball is dead.

The only place he can go is first.

[widac]

Where else are you going to put him? He became a runner, so his time at bat is over. He wasn't put out. He's not out because of something someone else did. The ball is dead.

The only place he can go is first.

You could argue that you should be able to get 2 outs on this like you can with runner interference.

[moblue]

That's more of what I was thinking. The runner should be out for touching the ball, and the BR is out because his teammate took the chance away from the defense (in my situation) to put him out as well. When I get asked to rewrite the rules...

[Umpire in Chief]

If you're going to impose the death penalty and get the BR too make sure you are confident it was intentional make your call then sit back and let the show begin...

[moblue]

I think a runner intentionally interfering with a batted ball is probably a rare occurence. I was just saying what I thought it should be in my previous post, not what I intended to do if/when I see it happen. Before I made a call on intentional interference I would be sure the runner signaled some kind of intent with his actions. Most runners know what happens if the ball hits them, and I doubt they want to leave the bases for the dugout.

I realize I haven't been posting here but just a few days, so I'm afraid I'm being misunderstood as "because that's how I think it should be; that's how I'm going to call it." I'm not like that at all. Sorry if that's how I'm coming across.

[Mr Umpire]

If you're going to impose the death penalty and get the BR too make sure you are confident it was intentional make your call then sit back and let the show begin...

I'll bring the popcorn.:wave:

[Umpire in Chief]

I realize I haven't been posting here but just a few days, so I'm afraid I'm being misunderstood as "because that's how I think it should be; that's how I'm going to call it." I'm not like that at all. Sorry if that's how I'm coming across.

Don't worry about that, just give us what you've got, it makes good discussion...

[mstaylor]

The problem with making the rule so you get the DP is you don't know that the fielder would even catch the ball, less alone turn a DP. I understand that you talking in the vien of wanting it to be changed but there is a reason for being the way it is. Think of it this way. A runner interferes with a F4 catching a pop-up, who would likely try to double the R1 off first. You will only get the one out because you don't know that he would have made the catch so he could try a double off.