Throwing the bat

[tjwoelfel13]

I am just telling you what my league does. I don't make the rules I only call what is in the leagues rulebook.  I hear where you are coming from  but I can't make my own rules based on what I think should happen. I think that an ejection should happen for repeat offences but the league just doesn't give me that as an option. 

[JaxRolo]

In my league, for carelessly thrown bats each team gets one warning and the next batter who does it is automatically out. The only exception is when the bat hits somebody then it is an automatic out regardless of warnings.

Did they get this out of the rule books or just make it up at random?

[clawdad]

 What rule set do you use?  Are you chartered/affiliated (Little League, PONY, etc.)? I was going to ask you in you EJ post, but forgot.  If you aren't, you could look at having you league joining one of those organizations. People rip on Little League, but at least there are mechanics manuals/rule interpretations/training resources out there.

[tjwoelfel13]

We are not affiliated with Little League. The city created the league. 

[mstaylor]

We are not affiliated with Little League. The city created the league. 

Then you are stuck with their stupid rule, and a stupid rule it is. There is a good chance you also have a "Must slide" rule. Another stupid rule that many local leagues put in. 

[tjwoelfel13]

 

We are not affiliated with Little League. The city created the league. 

Then you are stuck with their stupid rule, and a stupid rule it is. There is a good chance you also have a "Must slide" rule. Another stupid rule that many local leagues put in. 

I am indeed

[Rich Ives]

 

 

In my league, for carelessly thrown bats each team gets one warning and the next batter who does it is automatically out. The only exception is when the bat hits somebody then it is an automatic out regardless of warnings.

So a player with a bad habit gets to stay in the game and maybe do it again?

 

 

 

Maybe.  You can eject if necessary.  But it is NOT an out.  And the problem with most "thrown bat" rules is that ANY throw would be a violation. Toss the bat aside - out!  Toss it toward the dugout - out!  Toss it to your coach - out! 

[tjwoelfel13]

Again I can't make up rules. My league does not allow ejections for this and that's that. I disagree with it but I can't ignore the rule simply because I disagree with it. My league is not affiliated with little league so some of our rules are different.  

 

Second when I mean carelessly thrown I mean really thrown. For example, the bat hits halfway up the backstop while in air or goes to one of the infielders . A simple toss to the coach on the way to first is simply not the same. 

 

Calling the latter in my opinion is being an OOO

[clawdad]

We are not affiliated with Little League. The city created the league. 

I think I found your website, and read the rule book found there.  It looks REALLLLLLY complicated.  Way more than it should be IMHO.

[mstaylor]

A local league that is not affiliated shou;d just use OBR and add their age specific rules. That makes it way easier. 

[Aging_Arbiter]

Besides, the ejection could come as a GOOD thing for the coach, depending on ruleset.  For example, Little League has a mandatory play requirement and substitution rules (not familiar with Cal/Babe/Pony rulesets).  If "substituting" a runner at first because of a thrown bat, it could force the manager into an MPR violation.  Whereas the warn/eject removes any liability for him to have his players meet MPR.

[MB_Ump]

Besides, the ejection could come as a GOOD thing for the coach, depending on ruleset.  For example, Little League has a mandatory play requirement and substitution rules (not familiar with Cal/Babe/Pony rulesets).  If "substituting" a runner at first because of a thrown bat, it could force the manager into an MPR violation.  Whereas the warn/eject removes any liability for him to have his players meet MPR.

Remember in LL, by rule, an ejection is for the rest of that game AND the next one (4.07). Pretty severe for a kid IMO, but may be different in other leagues. Our LL have a rule similar to OP and it gets the point across in the lower divisions like minors.

[Aging_Arbiter]

Actually, quite a few years back we tried something that has seemed to help.  for our coach pitch kids, about 10'-15' up the 1st base line, we would use the chalk liner to make about a 6' circle in fould territory.  They would use this at practice and games to teach the batters to drop their bat in that circle on the way to 1st. 

[BigUmpire]

 

...and as he is leaving the box I have a 31" bat helicopter over the F2's head and into me......tell me what you would do...

 

Duck!

 

Quack!

[basejester]

Maybe.  You can eject if necessary.  But it is NOT an out.  And the problem with most "thrown bat" rules is that ANY throw would be a violation. Toss the bat aside - out!  Toss it toward the dugout - out!  Toss it to your coach - out! 

Have you ever seen indiscriminate enforcement like you describe here?

[mstaylor]

Remember in LL, by rule, an ejection is for the rest of that game AND the next one (4.07). Pretty severe for a kid IMO, but may be different in other leagues. Our LL have a rule similar to OP and it gets the point across in the lower divisions like minors.

I don't really care if parents think an ejection is harsh for bat throwing. Truly carelessly thrown is dangerous. LL never wrote a rule for it because too many just can't figure the difference between a dangerous throw and a clearing throw. If a batter is throwing the bat, after his swing and it is under control, probably good. He lets go as part of his swing, or helicopters it after his swing, not so much. I certainly don't mean he has to lovingly lay it on the ground, but he can't turn it into a deadly weapon either.

[kylejt]

I've only encountered bat flingers in LL minors. And it's only one every couple of years. We warn, then give the manager the option of sitting them the rest of the game, for safety concerns "You do it, or I'll do it). It's either that, or go by LL guidance (from the RIM) to eject, which is pretty harsh for a non-intentional act. Managers have always followed our "suggetion".

 

This is another case where umpires could use an administrative removal option. If you eject a little kid for something like this, there's a chance he'll quit baseball. That next game suspension makes no sense, in a situation like this. Acts like these can easily be corrected at the next practice, rather than having him sit at home for the next game. That's an awful option.

 

I have seen one mistake, for LL guys trying to enforce this. The bench warning. There's no reference to bench warnings in the RIM. The warn, then eject is for each individual player. It's not like a bean ball war in the upper divisions, where you're trying to send a message. Again, unitentional bat releases are (luckily) fairly rare.

 

If a non-LL organization wants umpires to enforce whatever rules they make up, they're paying us to do so. I don't have a problem doing what an employer is directing us to do.

[Aging_Arbiter]

I've only encountered bat flingers in LL minors. And it's only one every couple of years. We warn, then give the manager the option of sitting them the rest of the game, for safety concerns "You do it, or I'll do it). It's either that, or go by LL guidance (from the RIM) to eject, which is pretty harsh for a non-intentional act. Managers have always followed our "suggetion".

 

This is another case where umpires could use an administrative removal option. If you eject a little kid for something like this, there's a chance he'll quit baseball. That next game suspension makes no sense, in a situation like this. Acts like these can easily be corrected at the next practice, rather than having him sit at home for the next game. That's an awful option.

 

I have seen one mistake, for LL guys trying to enforce this. The bench warning. There's no reference to bench warnings in the RIM. The warn, then eject is for each individual player. It's not like a bean ball war in the upper divisions, where you're trying to send a message. Again, unitentional bat releases are (luckily) fairly rare.

 

If a non-LL organization wants umpires to enforce whatever rules they make up, they're paying us to do so. I don't have a problem doing what an employer is directing us to do.

I'd love to see LL implement something along the lines of the "administrative removal".  However, I think they would have to go as far as to remove MPR responsibilities from that coach as well as implementing penalties against using this to make a "mockery" of the game.  i.e. VT takes the lead and next batter is "administratively removed" for throwing a bat, subsequently taking this team down to 8 players.  Since HT doesn't bat, now you have another incomplete game that needs finished.  Yes, I could see coaches trying to use this as an advantage.