Home plate tag

[Whitebeard]

so very specific question that im not sure how it works. In a little league game I recently witnessed, team at bat had a runner touch home plate(multiple witnesses and livestream video recording was available for proof.) The fielding team didnt even attempt a tag out. After runner walked off field and next play was about to start. Fielding team coach called for his team to throw ball to home and tag plate. They then pressed the Umpire that runner did not touch home. The Umpire then reversed his safe call to an out call. Is this a legal play? Is this a form of cheating? Is this bad gamesmanship? I would love for someone with more knowledge on this matter to explain more on this. Thank you for any help.

[jimurrayalterego]

30 minutes ago, Whitebeard said:

so very specific question that im not sure how it works. In a little league game I recently witnessed, team at bat had a runner touch home plate(multiple witnesses and livestream video recording was available for proof.) The fielding team didnt even attempt a tag out. After runner walked off field and next play was about to start. Fielding team coach called for his team to throw ball to home and tag plate. They then pressed the Umpire that runner did not touch home. The Umpire then reversed his safe call to an out call. Is this a legal play? Is this a form of cheating? Is this bad gamesmanship? I would love for someone with more knowledge on this matter to explain more on this. Thank you for any help.

Was the "safe" call an actual signal due to a play at the plate. Otherwise, trained umpires do not signal or call safe with a runner touching or crossing home plate with no play attempt. It's possible the defense took advantage of an umpire who did not know or do his job and the appeal was designed to make the umpire question the touch because he did not see it. It might be cheating but what happened is legal if the appeal was done properly. 

[noumpere]

14 hours ago, Whitebeard said:

(multiple witnesses and livestream video recording was available for proof.) 

The umpire can use none of that to rule on the appeal.  

[beerguy55]

16 hours ago, Whitebeard said:

The Umpire then reversed his safe call to an out call. Is this a legal play? Is this a form of cheating?

You need to be more specific to which element you wonder is legal or cheating.

An appeal to challenge whether or not a player missed a base is a perfectly legal play.  How else would we address missed bases?

This must be done before the next pitch is thrown (among other things), so that aspect was also proper.

Waiting until the runner left the field was also proper, because there is a point where the runner can/must have an opportunity to correct his mistake before the missed base appeal can be made.  Once he's sat on the bench he can no longer fix his mistake.

What do you mean "pressed the umpire"?  Having the fielder touch the plate and saying "the runner missed the plate" is proper/legal and not "pressing" nor even arguing.   Did the coach argue further?  Yell?  Get into the umpire's face?  Did the umpire rule safe on the appeal, and then get bullied into changing to out?

As to the original play - did the umpire signal "safe" or nothing at all?  If he signals nothing at all that will generally mean, if he's doing things properly, that he did not see a tag of the runner AND he did not see a touch of the plate.  A good coach will see that non-signal and know he has a case to appeal.   The ump is not supposed to signal "safe" if the runner didn't touch the plate.

I cannot comment to what was in the mind of the coach, to whether or not he believed/knew the runner missed/touched the base.  The video evidence and testimony of people in the stands are both irrelevant.  The umpire can't use them.  I'm also willing to bet the video isn't nearly as conclusive as you describe, and that there are also multiple witnesses that say he missed the plate.  That's how human behavior works.

[Coach Carl]

9 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

Once he's sat on the bench he can no longer fix his mistake.

Just to be clear, because some may misconstrue:  Once the player enters dead ball territory, he can no longer correct his error.  He doesn't have to sit on the bench or even be in the dugout as long as he has entered DBT.   As an example, a field in my league has a gate in the fence that is half way between home and the dugout.  A turn and walk of about 8-10 feet leads to the actual dugout.