NFHS Baseball Exam Question - R2, R3 Intentionally dropped Bunt

[UAME]

I'm going to have to paraphrase this question, as I'm not going to retake the exam just to get it exactly right:

R2 & R3, no outs.  The batter attempts a bunt and pops up to the pitcher, who intentionally drops it:

a) ball is immediately dead (the answer did NOT include a statement that the batter would be declared Out)

b) ball is alive and in play

c) blah blah blah

d) blah blah blah

a & b were the only viable options, I'm quite sure.  Before answering, my gut told me that I would have officiated this as option b) as first base was open (no force situation) there would be no advantage gained by intentionally dropping the pop up.

5-1-1j states "an infielder intentionally drops a fair fly, line drive, or bunt in flight with at least first base occupied and less than two outs."

Case play 5.1.1 M has an R1, but concludes with this blanket statement:  "The ball becomes dead immediately when it is intentionally dropped by and infielder except in the case of an infield fly."

Against my instincts, I ultimately landed on answer a) due to that sentence in the case play, plus the "AT LEAST" phrase in 5-1-1j.  (Is R2 + R3 not MORE - at least - than R1?)

[wolfe_man]

 I would have guessed "C" as the average is normally that "C" is the answer if you're not sure. 🙄

Seriously though, I am assuming R2 is at 1st base and R3 is at 2nd base.  With less than two outs and at least first base occupied, then it is an immediate dead ball (batter out of course) under NFHS to prevent giving the defense an unfair advantage by dropping an easy out and trying to get a double play.

But if F1 does not touch the ball, then it's legal.  He has to touch the baseball in order to be able to intentionally drop it.  I only say this because a really smart F1 will pretend to make a play and then let it drop untouched, which is legal. 

 

 

[noumpere]

51 minutes ago, UAME said:

I'm going to have to paraphrase this question, as I'm not going to retake the exam just to get it exactly right:

R2 & R3, no outs.  The batter attempts a bunt and pops up to the pitcher, who intentionally drops it:

a) ball is immediately dead (the answer did NOT include a statement that the batter would be declared Out)

b) ball is alive and in play

c) blah blah blah

d) blah blah blah

a & b were the only viable options, I'm quite sure.  Before answering, my gut told me that I would have officiated this as option b) as first base was open (no force situation) there would be no advantage gained by intentionally dropping the pop up.

5-1-1j states "an infielder intentionally drops a fair fly, line drive, or bunt in flight with at least first base occupied and less than two outs."

Case play 5.1.1 M has an R1, but concludes with this blanket statement:  "The ball becomes dead immediately when it is intentionally dropped by and infielder except in the case of an infield fly."

Against my instincts, I ultimately landed on answer a) due to that sentence in the case play, plus the "AT LEAST" phrase in 5-1-1j.  (Is R2 + R3 not MORE - at least - than R1?)

“At least” (in this context) means either R1 alone or R1 and any other combination of runners. 

[noumpere]

3 minutes ago, wolfe_man said:

 I would have guessed "C" as the average is normally where "C" is the answer if you're not sure. 🙄

Seriously though, I am assuming R2 is at 1st base and R3 is at 2nd base.  With less than two outs and at least first base occupied, then it is an immediate dead ball (batter out of course) under NFHS to prevent giving the defense an unfair advantage by dropping an easy out and trying to get a double play.

But if F1 did not touch the ball, then it's legal.  He has to touch the baseball in order for him to be able to drop it.  I only say this because a smart F1 will pretend to make a play and then let it drop untouched, which is legal. Of course, if we're less than two outs and runners at 1st and 2nd, we might have an IFF to consider also here.

 

 

I thought it was a bunt - no infield fly. 

[wolfe_man]

7 minutes ago, noumpere said:

I thought it was a bunt - no infield fly. 

I quote "batter attempts a bunt and pops up to the pitcher"... is a pop-up to the pitcher still considered a bunt after flying 45+ feet?   I get your point, but odd wording used in the exam question in my opinion.  Is a bunt a pop-up, if yes then how far can it fly before it becomes a fly ball? See my point...

But it is off-topic for the main point of the thread, so I'll digress from my wandering and return to the topic at-hand.   

 

[JSam21]

2 hours ago, wolfe_man said:

I quote "batter attempts a bunt and pops up to the pitcher"... is a pop-up to the pitcher still considered a bunt after flying 45+ feet?   I get your point, but odd wording used in the exam question in my opinion.  Is a bunt a pop-up, if yes then how far can it fly before it becomes a fly ball? See my point...

But it is off-topic for the main point of the thread, so I'll digress from my wandering and return to the topic at-hand.   

 

A bunt is the method in which it was struck at. The batter held the bat in the path of the ball in an attempt to tap it slowly to the infield... he just happened to fail at that.

The addition of the bunt in the question is a red herring to throw you off. Nothing more, nothing less as the ball being bunted or not is irrelevant to the ruling. 

[TheLovejoy]

Guys.... I"m sorry....I'm so confused here.... He said runners on 2nd and 3rd... What is all of this talk about bunting infield flys or a runner on first?

You can't have an intentionally dropped ball if there is no force out applicable. 

[jimurrayalterego]

53 minutes ago, TheLovejoy said:

Guys.... I"m sorry....I'm so confused here.... He said runners on 2nd and 3rd... What is all of this talk about bunting infield flys or a runner on first?

You can't have an intentionally dropped ball if there is no force out applicable. 

He said R2 and R3 and @wolfe_man said "I am assuming R2 is at 1st base and R3 is at 2nd base." the thread went downhill from there. But with no outs back when FED used that stupid method it would be R1 at 2B and R2 at 1B.

[TheLovejoy]

I saw @wolfe_man say that, and I just assumed he'd read it wrong and it meant runners at 2nd and 3rd. I legit didn't know that used-to-could mean runners at 1st and 2nd. 
 

[wolfe_man]

8 minutes ago, TheLovejoy said:

I saw @wolfe_man say that, and I just assumed he'd read it wrong and it meant runners at 2nd and 3rd. I legit didn't know that used-to-could mean runners at 1st and 2nd. 
 

Sorry, it was the only way it could make sense to me, but I verified so I was sure. It threw me at first also. 

[jimurrayalterego]

14 minutes ago, wolfe_man said:

Sorry, it was the only way it could make sense to me, but I verified so I was sure. It threw me at first also. 

What did you verify? "b. The ball stays live" makes sense. Other than the semantic issues @UAME has with FED.

[wolfe_man]

56 minutes ago, jimurrayalterego said:

What did you verify? "b. The ball stays live" makes sense. Other than the semantic issues @UAME has with FED.

If you don't know, then I can't tell you. Not all of us are 50-year experienced umpires with three trips to Wendelstedt.  I'm sorry I commented, I'll try to refrain in the future.

[jimurrayalterego]

56 minutes ago, wolfe_man said:

If you don't know, then I can't tell you. Not all of us are 50-year experienced umpires with three trips to Wendelstedt.  I'm sorry I commented, I'll try to refrain in the future.

Baseball dad until 2006. Evans Desert Classic started my 19 year umpiring. But for those that might peruse the thread as lurkers we have to have a firm ruling. There was no infield fly because of runners on 2B and 3B. The bunt resulted in a fly ball. Dropping the ball intentionally or not keeps the ball live. When we what if R1 and R2 we don't have an infield fly. We have an attempted bunt which results in a fly ball. Definitions: "An INFIELD FLY is a fair fly ball (not including a line drive nor an attempted bunt)" We might have a semantic problem with some FED wording. All of the codes have problematic wording on something or the other that we deal with. Do you agree with live ball in the OP?