Who is out???

[Ump31]

Happened last night, and not sure if we ruled correctly... (This is Little league)

Situation was bases loaded and no outs.  Ground ball hit weakly to third, but R3 did not leave the bag.  Third baseman steps on third (did not tag 3R) and then tagged 2R that was running to third.  Question is are both 2R and 3R out (for not advancing on a force) or just 2R because he was put out by stepping on the bag and then tagged out first removing the force?  

Thanks

[beerguy55]

Ask yourself this - was R3 ever tagged?  Was home plate tagged?

How or why would R3 be out?

That should answer your question. Otherwise, I'd very interested in understanding the justification for calling R3 out, under which rule.

R2 was out when F5 stepped on third base, removing the force for R3.  The subsequent tag to R2 was inconsequential - he tagged a retired runner.

 

If F5 had tagged R3 and then stepped on the base, in that exact order, then both R3 and R2 would be out.

[Ump31]

That is how I viewed it.  1 out.  However my partner was wanted to say 2 because the R3 had to run due to force and needs to advance to the next base.  By not doing so, he would also be out.  His only uncertainty with that play was that he was not sure if R3 had to be tagged or not.  

My view is simply based on the order things happened.  as you mentioned, trailing runner was out first thus removing the force.

I think we got it right by ruling 1 out.

Thanks!

 

[wolfe_man]

Once the force is removed by the fielder stepping on the bag, then R3 does not have to advance.  Only R2 is out in this scenario.

I agree with only getting one out here also.

[beerguy55]

1 hour ago, Ump31 said:

However my partner was wanted to say 2 because the R3 had to run due to force and needs to advance to the next base.  By not doing so, he would also be out.  His only uncertainty with that play was that he was not sure if R3 had to be tagged or not.  

I would say there's a teachable moment for your partner.  His homework would be to find that rule that supports his position - he won't because it's not there.  R3 being forced does not mean he is required to run (that is, the act of not running does not result in an automatic out).  It only means that the base he started at is no longer a safe haven for him.

R3 was forced until R2 was put out (by tagging third base).

The rulebook outlines the conditions to put out a forced runner.  Tag the runner...or tag the next base.

A forced runner who chooses to stay on his base of origin also does not qualify for the abandonment rule - so shut that down if you ever hear it.  A forced runner can in fact run or be chased back to his base of origin...he (or the next base) still needs to be tagged to get the out.

[Ump31]

Thank you for this.  It helps.   Follow up question.  If the R3 never leaves the bag, is he out if tagged while still on the base (assuming the F3 doesn't step on the base or tag R2)?  Or does he have to step off in order to be counted out?

[beerguy55]

2 hours ago, Ump31 said:

Thank you for this.  It helps.   Follow up question.  If the R3 never leaves the bag, is he out if tagged while still on the base (assuming the F3 doesn't step on the base or tag R2)?  Or does he have to step off in order to be counted out?

He is out...the base is not a safe haven for him - he is "forced" to vacate.

The same concept can apply on an appeal play...eg. fly ball and you run from first to second before the catch...they can tag you while you're standing on the other base.  So, a base isn't' ALWAYS safe.

[MadMax]

On 4/2/2026 at 4:32 PM, beerguy55 said:

they can tag and appeal upon you while you're standing on the other base.

FIFY. 
Simply tagging you, absent intent (ie. appeal) doesn’t rule you out. Conjoined with an appeal is what does it. 

Example: On a fly ball to right, R2 tags and advances to 3B. The throw from F9 is close, and F5 applies a tag to R2. R2 has safely arrived at 3B, and the Umpire should (I’d argue must) judge status – Safe. Then, some other fielder, let’s say, or the coaching staff is calling out, “He left early! He left early!” The F5 reapplies the tag… 

Then is when he’s adjudged to be safe or out in regards to that appeal. 

[jimurrayalterego]

28 minutes ago, MadMax said:

FIFY. 
Simply tagging you, absent intent (ie. appeal) doesn’t rule you out. Conjoined with an appeal is what does it. 

Example: On a fly ball to right, R2 tags and advances to 3B. The throw from F9 is close, and F5 applies a tag to R2. R2 has safely arrived at 3B, and the Umpire should (I’d argue must) judge status – Safe. Then, some other fielder, let’s say, or the coaching staff is calling out, “He left early! He left early!” The F5 reapplies the tag… 

Then is when he’s adjudged to be safe or out in regards to that appeal. 

Your OP is an example of a tag in live action, the leaving early not unmistakable, being an accidental appeal which is not recognized. His wording was specific to his OP where the appeal was unmistakable.