Tag Play Near Second Base

[jnazz]

I had a play on Friday night that is bothering me. I am BU. R1 and 1 out. F6 and F4 are playing up the middle (double play situation). Routine ground ball is hit to F4. I start moving towards first and trying to get an angle on the force at second base (I'm moving towards first base because I know the close play should be the back end of the double play). This is when my problem starts. F4 stumbles just before he fields the ball and falls on it. By this time R1 runs behind F4 and F4 reaches out to tag him. All I see is F4's back during the tag attempt (me, F4, the ball, and R1 are in a direct line). I call, "SAFE, NO TAG!" selling it hard. I had no problem with the defensive coach, but I think I kicked it because of the comment I got from F6. He said something like, "You missed that one Blue; he got him on the hip."

So my question is, what do I need to do and where do I need to be when the play blows up? Should I take a few steps towards the baseline to get a better view of the possible tag? My problem is that if I start to do this when he first stumbles and he still flips to F6, I'm is a God-awful position for the play at first. What do you guys think?

[Guest]

With only R1, you don't need to start "cheating" to 1B as early so sit tight until you see F4 get the throw off.

Specific to you: From my experience, Baseball Canada evaluators expect to see more of the "double play drift" (step up, turn, face ball, turn to 2B, chest to ball, turn to 1B, make call from play at 2B while keeping chest to ball, make call at 1B) as opposed to the pro mechanic of "cheating" toward 1B right off the bat.

But once you see the play blow up, bounce back to a neutral position in the working area at which point you would read where the play is going to happen, and adjust accordingly. In this instance, you should've been moving toward either first or second base to try and create an angle. Moving to the baseline won't have changed that.

A tag play resulting from a mishandled ground ball is one of the hardest plays to adapt to, because you have almost no time to react. Don't let this one eat at you.

[mrumpiresir]

Don't beat yourself up over this. Far too often, especially in a two man system, we get blocked from the play. You will learn to adjust in time, but even if you are where you are supposed to be, sometimes things happen. Make your call and live with it.

[jkumpire]

Don't even let the defense blame you because they can't make a simple play! It's their foul up, they own it. You own your hustle and your effort to make the call the best you can. Your mechanic is an older mechanic they taught us at pro school in the 1980's. It is a good mechanic, especially on higher levels of ball because you don't have much time to get any good angle for the wacker at 1B. Sometimes you only get one step with a good turn, or less.

The lower the level, the more you have to respect the play at 2B to make sure you get it right. but in this case don't get too made at yourself because the defense messed up a play that put you in a box. Just remember, if you were in perfect position to make the call at 2B, but they thought you missed the wacker at 1B, the HC would be just as mad at you, he's looking for an excuse to blame someone, and since he can't fire his players, he's coming at you.

And when the HC tries to pull that crap, just tell him to hire a 3rd umpire if he wants every play covered 1000%.

[yawetag]

And when the HC tries to pull that crap, just tell him to hire a 3rd umpire if he wants every play covered 1000%.

No. Just no.

[Guest]

And when the HC tries to pull that crap, just tell him to hire a 3rd umpire if he wants every play covered 1000%.

No. Just no.

No kidding.

You can get 80-85% of calls right with an average two-man crew. With a solid three-man crew, you can get 90-95% of calls right. In the majors with the highest quality 4 or 6 man crew, you can get 97-98% 0f calls right.

But toss a meathead onto a crew to form a 3-man, and your success rate will tank. 3-Man is only effective when the crew is so familiar with the system (and ideally each other) that communication is essentially irrelevant.

[noumpere]

And when the HC tries to pull that crap, just tell him to hire a 3rd umpire if he wants every play covered 1000%.

At some point, R1 is going to pass directly between you and F4. If that's when the tag happens, its tough. And. moving to try to see the tag usually has you moving when the attempt happens, and take you out of a good look if there's then a throw.

The same thing happens to the umpire in the middle if theres three umpires.

[archangel]

I dont want to sound smug, but a 2-man, 80-85% sounds too low (or maybe I've been lucky to work with good partners all this time! lol).

Going with just base calls, that could mean maybe 3 - 5+ missed calls, and if you factor in an avg of 300 ball/strike calls, that could mean 45-60 missed by PU alone...Anybody ever walk away thinking "well, I only missed 40 or 50?". In the games I work (HS), and ones where I evaluate others, its more like 1 (maybe 2) on the bases, and just 2 - 3 close ball/strikes if I'm PU, maybe it looks like a few more if I'm BU or in the stands (as PU always has the better view/benefit if doubt).

[UmpTTS43]

Even in a two man crew you can get 100% of the calls right. Missing a call has nothing to do with the number of officials on the field. It has to do with proper positioning and timing the majority of the time. Saying you need more umpires to get the calls right is a lame excuse.

[jkumpire]

Well,

Normally I kill threads when I put a post in, I'm glad to see I got a reaction, though I am surprised by it.

Let me respond, please.

1. If you are sliding towards 1B and something happens, then best thing to do is immediately stop your slide step, and set for the call. Or if you have time, slide back to 2B a little if you can. It's not a hard adjustment with a little practice, and remember as the first poster said, the money play is at 1B.

2. I'll admit the line to tell the HC in this case is a throwaway line to an extent. But please, the misreading is unreal. I said "covered" in the statement, which means you have an umpire who sees the call, and the aftermath of the play at 2B, and another umpire who has position for the play at 1B. You can cover much more with a well worked 3 man crew than a 2 man crew. Is there anyone here who wants to argue the point? Seriously? Also, please note I said 1000%, I wish we had a "cynical" font for statements like this.

3. The whole point of the threat is about a good umpire who got caught in a tough play by a mistake/misplay by F4, and how to handle the coach because he comes out to complain the BU missed the call. Let's see, if the HC thought the BU got the call right, even if the BU was at a bad angle standing on his head drinking a root beer, would the HC be out there? OF COURSE NOT. He's out there complaining at jnazz because F4's misplay caused the runner to be safe. I'll bet anyone here jnazz got the call right, and our HC wouldn't know out from safe if Doug Harvey was his 1B coach telling him the result of the play. The HC is trying to buy a call, or throw the BU under the bus and blame him for F4's mistake. Why should jnazz have to put up with it?

4. Finally, with all due respect, we all have stories or experiences about how someone blew up a 3 man crewed game because the crew did not do this or that right. Many of us do not do 3 man often. But some of your comments folks are way off base. three competent umpires can work a 3 man quite well if they communicate and have a good pregame. I've done 3 man D1 games with two strangers and we had no problems covering everything easily. I've also done 3 man games where I would like to pay the 3rd man his game fee and ask him to sit in the stands and watch the other 2 do a 2 man well.

As read some of these posts, it's like we should only do every game as a 2 man crew, since most umpires will mess up a 3 or 4 man crewed game. I just don't buy what your selling here.

Thank you for your comments, and I can't wait to read the responses.

[mstaylor]

Well,

Normally I kill threads when I put a post in, I'm glad to see I got a reaction, though I am surprised by it.

Let me respond, please.

1. If you are sliding towards 1B and something happens, then best thing to do is immediately stop your slide step, and set for the call. Or if you have time, slide back to 2B a little if you can. It's not a hard adjustment with a little practice, and remember as the first poster said, the money play is at 1B.

2. I'll admit the line to tell the HC in this case is a throwaway line to an extent. But please, the misreading is unreal. I said "covered" in the statement, which means you have an umpire who sees the call, and the aftermath of the play at 2B, and another umpire who has position for the play at 1B. You can cover much more with a well worked 3 man crew than a 2 man crew. Is there anyone here who wants to argue the point? Seriously? Also, please note I said 1000%, I wish we had a "cynical" font for statements like this.

3. The whole point of the threat is about a good umpire who got caught in a tough play by a mistake/misplay by F4, and how to handle the coach because he comes out to complain the BU missed the call. Let's see, if the HC thought the BU got the call right, even if the BU was at a bad angle standing on his head drinking a root beer, would the HC be out there? OF COURSE NOT. He's out there complaining at jnazz because F4's misplay caused the runner to be safe. I'll bet anyone here jnazz got the call right, and our HC wouldn't know out from safe if Doug Harvey was his 1B coach telling him the result of the play. The HC is trying to buy a call, or throw the BU under the bus and blame him for F4's mistake. Why should jnazz have to put up with it?

4. Finally, with all due respect, we all have stories or experiences about how someone blew up a 3 man crewed game because the crew did not do this or that right. Many of us do not do 3 man often. But some of your comments folks are way off base. three competent umpires can work a 3 man quite well if they communicate and have a good pregame. I've done 3 man D1 games with two strangers and we had no problems covering everything easily. I've also done 3 man games where I would like to pay the 3rd man his game fee and ask him to sit in the stands and watch the other 2 do a 2 man well.

As read some of these posts, it's like we should only do every game as a 2 man crew, since most umpires will mess up a 3 or 4 man crewed game. I just don't buy what your selling here.

Thank you for your comments, and I can't wait to read the responses.

Absolutely!