Time Play Timing

[Lewis 88]

I understand the basics of what a time play is and when it occurs.  The question I'm looking for is, at what moment, or action of time decides your decision.  The actual tag of the runner or the physical out sign or sound.

I had a bang bang one last night I went with the actual tag. 

[Rich Ives]

21 minutes ago, Lewis 88 said:

I understand the basics of what a time play is and when it occurs.  The question I'm looking for is, at what moment, or action of time decides your decision.  The actual tag of the runner or the physical out sign or sound.

I had a bang bang one last night I went with the actual tag. 

Actual tag.

[Senor Azul]

The following text is taken from the 2017 Jaksa/Roder rules interpretation manual (chapter 10, p. 90):

When judging whether a run scores on a time play, the umpire is to watch for whether the runner touches the plate before or after the tag originates. The tag originates when it is applied by touching the runner or base. An umpire is not to judge a time play according to whether the runner touches the plate before or after the completion of the tag—which is after complete control is shown or proven. The umpire at the plate watches for whether the runner touches the plate before or after the origination of the tag. The umpire on the bases watches for the completion of the tag (complete control) and signals the third out. Only then does the umpire at the plate make his signal on the time play.

[Mudisfun]

Think about this... you are at home plate and see R3 attempt to score as F4 puts a tag down on the B/R sliding into 2nd. You note that the tag happened just prior to R3 touching home plate.

Your partner over on the other side of the field sees the tag and hopefully even points the moment he sees the tag which is a nice help to you for determining when the play actually happened. Now your partner using good timing and using his eyes allows the rest of the play to finish. He looks for and finds the glove and determines A) the ball is in the glove with secure possession or B) the ball is rolling into the outfield or has fallen to the ground.

As the above is happening, you are not yet in a position to determine or say anything.

In A) your partner now signals the 3rd out, having a tag and secure possession of the ball. You now signal no run, no run! In B) you do nothing since the run obviously scores.

Assume in A) that you have the run scoring just prior to the out call... Again, wait for your partner since if the runner is safe you have nothing to do. However, he bangs the out. You now announce that run scores, that run scores, score one run to the score keeper/press box.

If you base your call off when your partner makes the call, then your runner would always be safe.

 

 

[beerguy55]

Pragmatically speaking, on a bang bang play I'm not sure how accurate you expect to be.  You're trying to dictate when the glove actually first touched the runner from 90ish feet away (or more) while at the same time making sure the runner actually touched home plate.  One of those you're "seeing" with your peripheral vision....and I suspect it's the tag.

Come on, really?

What if the fielder missed the tag on one part of the body, but caught the runner on another...runner is still out, but the run scores/not scores depending on which tag was successful, from your vantage point...you might not have any reason to believe one was missed.

If there isn't "daylight" between the runner at home and the tag on the other runner, score the run.  In short, you better be damned sure the 3rd out happened first or you're gonna have a SH*#storm on your hands.  You don't have the luxury of instant replay.   I would treat it the same way as an R3 with fly ball where you're watching both the catch and leaving early...if it isn't obvious don't call it.

This might not be the "best" or "appropriate" guidance...but I think it's the most practical.

[Rich Ives]

48 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

The following text is taken from the 2017 Jaksa/Roder rules interpretation manual (chapter 10, p. 90):

When judging whether a run scores on a time play, the umpire is to watch for whether the runner touches the plate before or after the tag originates. The tag originates when it is applied by touching the runner or base. An umpire is not to judge a time play according to whether the runner touches the plate before or after the completion of the tag—which is after complete control is shown or proven. The umpire at the plate watches for whether the runner touches the plate before or after the origination of the tag. The umpire on the bases watches for the completion of the tag (complete control) and signals the third out. Only then does the umpire at the plate make his signal on the time play.

So if it is validated it happened then. 

[Lewis 88]

Thanks guys appreciate the knowledge