Let your F1 go over his pitch count? Pay the price.

[Mudisfun]

Had a protest the other night. Not any real fireworks, but thought I would share the scenario and the outcome of the protest.

LL Majors.

Coach has not spent the season developing his battery and only has 2 pitchers. After they are burned, every team hits them like batting practice. Game one of the playoffs and the team is throwing their best F1, lets call them the VT. HT is trailing in bottom of 5. 3-1 with R1/R2, 1 out. VT pitcher retires the batter for out #2 and ends that at bat with 86 pitches. For this age level, F1 is now maxed out. HT manager is tracking pitches and is aware of the situation, but does not say a word. VT pitcher throws the first pitch to the batter for a ball. HT coach asks for time, notifies the crew that F1 is over the limit and wants to protest the game as per violation of LL Reg VI.

Crew confirms with the scorekeeper, yes, F1 is over his max pitch limit. F1 is swapped out, P is put into the book and the game resumes with a 1-0 count. Next pitch is wild, but somehow R2 gets caught napping and ends up being tagged out at 3rd to end the inning. Top of the 6th, VT puts 2 more on the board and strikes out the side to end the game, 5-1.

HT coach files the protest as required under 4.19. Umpires send in the report as well. Protest committee meets that night as we need to know what the outcome of the protest will be since with this being playoffs, schedules require knowing...

Protest committee decides that the one pitch thrown in violation of the rules did not materially impact the game, especially since A) the HT was losing by 2 runs at the time, B) the pitch thrown was a ball, so technically benefitted the HT, and C) the next pitch of the at bat by the new pitcher caused the 3rd out of the inning. Protest committee decided that the game result will stand. However, the conduct of the VT manager who at the game placed blame for the pitcher going over on everyone except for himself, and who by rule is the only person responsible to ensure his player does not exceed pitch count, was held accountable. This manager was suspended for the next game and will miss their 2nd playoff contest and of course if this issue repeats, will lose his team for the remainder of the season.

There was also a conversation with the other manager regarding knowingly allowing the pitcher to exceed his count versus notifying the other team, umpires or even the scorekeeper of this fact just for the reason of opening the door to a protest. This manager is a member of our BOD, so we were less than happy that he would not recognize his larger duty to the safety of the player versus allowing a weak chance of winning via protest when on the actual playing field they were losing. 

Fun Fun at the LL field this week. Kind of a boring story, but the only think of significance this week I have run into.

Stay safe out there!

 

 

[beerguy55]

1 hour ago, Mudisfun said:

There was also a conversation with the other manager regarding knowingly allowing the pitcher to exceed his count versus notifying the other team, umpires or even the scorekeeper of this fact just for the reason of opening the door to a protest. This manager is a member of our BOD, so we were less than happy that he would not recognize his larger duty to the safety of the player versus allowing a weak chance of winning via protest when on the actual playing field they were losing. 

This is my problem.  Any coach that knowingly lets this happen has failed his duty and I think he should have the same penalty levied as the VT coach.  My assumption is LL coaches are held to an ethical standard, and this likely falls under that.

As a member of the Board, he should be removed immediately, and held to a higher standard...if he hasn't violated the code of ethics for the board (let alone LL's) then they likely don't have a code of ethics.

[Rich Ives]

Reg VI (g) says the official count recorder should (not must) notify the UIC when the limit is met and the UIC must then inform the manager that F1 must be removed.  BUT failure to notify does not relieve the manager of the responsibility.

So we also need to know why the official recorder did not notify the UIC. 

I had two tally counters - one for my pitchers and one to count the other team's pitches.  The trick is to hit the button at pitch release so you don't forget when the action starts.  Did the same thing when I was in the booth scorekeeping for other games.

 

[Mudisfun]

On 6/3/2022 at 1:23 PM, Rich Ives said:

So we also need to know why the official recorder did not notify the UIC. 

 

Because they were dumb is the only answer I have...

[The Man in Blue]

Figured I'd just drop this here ... fun from the weekend!

Two outs, bottom of 5th inning, VT is up by 1, runner on first.  Time limit is quickly approaching.

VT HC puts in a pitcher who is at his pitch count for the tournament.  While we were not charged with any pitch counts or enforcement, the coach came over to give me a head's up as to what he was doing, so I was prepared and kept my poker face.

I see commotion in the HT's dugout.  First they were upset over the time limit approaching.  Then you can see they are trying to figure out what is going to happen because his first pitch will put him over the limit -- do they do something now, do they wait till he throws a pitch?

Pitcher is warm, I call "Play!"  Pitcher immediately picks the runner off first base, ending the inning.  HT coach goes ballistic.  "They can't put him in!  He's at his limit!"

Me: "Did he throw a pitch?"

HT coach storms back to dugout.  VT did screw up by not killing another two minutes though, we had to play the 6th inning.

[JonnyCat]

2 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

Figured I'd just drop this here ... fun from the weekend!

Two outs, bottom of 5th inning, VT is up by 1, runner on first.  Time limit is quickly approaching.

VT HC puts in a pitcher who is at his pitch count for the tournament.  While we were not charged with any pitch counts or enforcement, the coach came over to give me a head's up as to what he was doing, so I was prepared and kept my poker face.

I see commotion in the HT's dugout.  First they were upset over the time limit approaching.  Then you can see they are trying to figure out what is going to happen because his first pitch will put him over the limit -- do they do something now, do they wait till he throws a pitch?

Pitcher is warm, I call "Play!"  Pitcher immediately picks the runner off first base, ending the inning.  HT coach goes ballistic.  "They can't put him in!  He's at his limit!"

Me: "Did he throw a pitch?"

HT coach storms back to dugout.  VT did screw up by not killing another two minutes though, we had to play the 6th inning.

That seems odd. Not sure what organization this was, but if a pitcher is at his limit, that should be an illegal sub. They're not allowed to exceed their pitch limits. I understand you're not responsible for enforcement. Pitch counts are for the safety of the kids arms, why would you knowingly allow him to exceed the limit? I get that he didn't in this case and you got lucky, but you fully expected him to exceed his pitch count. You couldn't have predicted he'd pick off the runner. Based on many of your posts here, you always seem to put the kids safety first.

I'm not judging or trying to bust your chops, it just seems out of character. Is this something that the tournament organization condones, or am I mis-interpreting what happened? Just curious. Thanks.

[The Man in Blue]

@JonnyCat  The coach knew it and told me in advance that the kid wasn't going to throw a pitch.  He had a sick pick off move that I saw several times the game before, so I was aware.

It was an unaffiliated summer HS tournament, so their rules (mainly NFHS with some exceptions). 

It's an interesting question, but like I said ... umpires were directed not to be involved with the pitch counts.  Not my monkey, not my circus?  I didn't consider what would have happened had he NOT picked him off, since he would have been required to face a batter before the coach could have made another change.  I guess that is confidence (on the coach's part)!  Another example of an org changing a rule from the book but not considering the full consequences.

[JonnyCat]

19 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

I didn't consider what would have happened had he NOT picked him off, since he would have been required to face a batter before the coach could have made another change. 

I guess he could just keep throwing to 1st until you dumped him for delaying the game!! 

Yes, sometimes rule mods bring up unintended consequences. Thanks for the clarification.