BR passing R1 - Who is responsible?

[rzanew]

HS Varsity.  2-man.  I'm the PU.

R1, R3.  Fly ball to LF.  R3 tagging up.  Wind and light rain make it difficult for F7 to make the catch and the ball drops to the ground next to F7.   I now have R3 heading home.  Throw comes to F6 with no play at home.  

Defensive HC comes out and asked did I see BR pass R1.   My main responsibility is the tag of R3, and BU has the catch/no catch, so neither one of us saw the passing.    Apparently, R1 was retreating on the "caught" ball when BR rounded 1st and passed him.  

How can we (as a PU/BU team) see this and get the out?   

[ArchAngel72]

Only way with 2 is to have PU monitor R3 but be mindful of touch and passing at 1b

 

either that or have BU move to the other side of 1st  ( think 1st base coaches box maybe a step or two closer to the plate ) but that would be REALLY odd positioning from B or C and would not really be easy to pull off at all specially if hes out looking for the catch

So yeah to me that is PU's territory sucks but gotta widen that vision

[wolfe_man]

41 minutes ago, rzanew said:

HS Varsity.  2-man.

My main responsibility is the tag of R3, and BU has the catch/no catch, so neither one of us saw the passing.  

How can we (as a PU/BU team) see this and get the out?   

You can't.  It's one of the downfalls of the two-man system, you can't see everything with only two sets of eyes. 

Now with that said, I try to keep an eye ready to check the runners as soon as I see contact with the ball (have to see contact to know if he left early, right?).  So, after contact I'll make a quick look at runners if time permits, but even then there would be no guarantee that you can catch a runner passing another.  Your assignment and job is to be focused on the tag-up from 3B, not what the B/R and R1 is doing off to your right.  You don't have eyes in the back of your head. 

This coach is just wanting to argue in my opinion as any regular experienced HS Varsity coach will know that you're supposed to be either (A) watching the ball or (B) verifying the runner at 3B tags and doesn't leave early.  I wasn't there, but feels like he may be upset about something else and just looking for a reason to argue to me.

[maven]

You mention fly ball to F7, but it matters where. Responsibilities will be different.

With F7 moving to the foul line, catch/no catch belongs to PU. BU has nothing better to do than to watch R1 retouch and the BR touch 1B, and he should pick up the BR passing him. (Of course, then the issue turns to getting R3's retouch—the mechanic there is DTBYC.)

With F7 not moving to the foul line, catch/no catch belongs to BU. But he still has R1 retouching, so he should move over toward the 1BL to be able to see it all. And he should be able to pick up the passing as well.

There's more than 1 reason R1 goes halfway on a fly ball, rather than trying to retouch, but getting passed by the BR is a big one.

[noumpere]

1 hour ago, rzanew said:

How can we (as a PU/BU team) see this and get the out?   

Keep your head on a swivel.  The timing might be such that it can't be seen (the passing is at the exact time the ball falls past F7 -- when BU needs to be watching that and you need to be watching the touch) -- but often it's such that one of you can glance at BR and get your head back to see what you need to see (or, see what you need to see and then glance back at BR).  After all, someone also needs to watch BR touch first, and that happens a lot quicker than the passing.

 

I wasn't there, so I don't know the exact timing of this.

[wolfe_man]

16 minutes ago, noumpere said:

Keep your head on a swivel. 

 

This is always good advice. We have to do the best we can with the guys we have on the field.  It's like having guys at R2 and R3 and the ball is hit to the gap and you have to make sure and see that they all hit their bases when running.  DTBYC by keeping your head moving and positioning yourself well. 

[umpstu]

2 hours ago, rzanew said:

HS Varsity.  2-man.  I'm the PU.

R1, R3.  Fly ball to LF.  R3 tagging up.  Wind and light rain make it difficult for F7 to make the catch and the ball drops to the ground next to F7.   I now have R3 heading home.  Throw comes to F6 with no play at home.  

Defensive HC comes out and asked did I see BR pass R1.   My main responsibility is the tag of R3, and BU has the catch/no catch, so neither one of us saw the passing.    Apparently, R1 was retreating on the "caught" ball when BR rounded 1st and passed him.  

How can we (as a PU/BU team) see this and get the out?   

This is one of those sometimes you just have to umpire situations.  It's really BU responsibility, but I always teach umpires to keep their heads on a swivel.