RefMag Play 1

[noumpere]

I know RefMag sometimes gets plays wrong, and I also know I'm not up on all the recent rules changes.  So (plays paraphrased),

R2.  F6 hides the ball under his arm.  F1 bends down to scrape mud off his shoes. F1 has one foot on the dirt and one foot on the grass.  F6 tags R2 who is off the base.

a.  R2 is out

b. Balk

c. The umpire should call time to stop the play from happening

 

(FED, NCAA and OBR rulings, please)

 

[Rich Ives]

3 hours ago, noumpere said:

I know RefMag sometimes gets plays wrong, and I also know I'm not up on all the recent rules changes.  So (plays paraphrased),

R2.  F6 hides the ball under his arm.  F1 bends down to scrape mud off his shoes. F1 has one foot on the dirt and one foot on the grass.  F6 tags R2 who is off the base.

a.  R2 is out

b. Balk

c. The umpire should call time to stop the play from happening

 

(FED, NCAA and OBR rulings, please)

 

OBR - out. Sucker.

[Rich Ives]

3 hours ago, noumpere said:

I know RefMag sometimes gets plays wrong, and I also know I'm not up on all the recent rules changes.  So (plays paraphrased),

R2.  F6 hides the ball under his arm.  F1 bends down to scrape mud off his shoes. F1 has one foot on the dirt and one foot on the grass.  F6 tags R2 who is off the base.

a.  R2 is out

b. Balk

c. The umpire should call time to stop the play from happening

 

(FED, NCAA and OBR rulings, please)

 

It's all about when the possession rule kicks in.  Pitcher cannot be (wherever) without the ball.

BUT

Do we expect the pitcher to disappear off the mound instantly after releasing the ball? Isn't he technically in an illegal place without the ball as soon as he releases it as a pitch or pick-off? 

 

[Jimurray]

7 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

It's all about when the possession rule kicks in.  Pitcher cannot be (wherever) without the ball.

BUT

Do we expect the pitcher to disappear off the mound instantly after releasing the ball? Isn't he technically in an illegal place without the ball as soon as he releases it as a pitch or pick-off? 

 

Shouldn't be a factor in OBR. NCAA specifies location only when a hidden ball trick is attempted. The 6 foot restriction in FED can be violated unwittingly but no umpire would wittingly call it absent a hidden ball attempt.

[Replacematt]

4 hours ago, noumpere said:

I know RefMag sometimes gets plays wrong, and I also know I'm not up on all the recent rules changes.  So (plays paraphrased),

R2.  F6 hides the ball under his arm.  F1 bends down to scrape mud off his shoes. F1 has one foot on the dirt and one foot on the grass.  F6 tags R2 who is off the base.

a.  R2 is out

b. Balk

c. The umpire should call time to stop the play from happening

 

(FED, NCAA and OBR rulings, please)

 

Out in FED and OBR. Balk in NCAA (this was on the test this year, or maybe in the online clinic.)

[noumpere]

13 minutes ago, Matt said:

Out in FED and OBR. Balk in NCAA (this was on the test this year, or maybe in the online clinic.)

That's what I have.  RefMag has Balk (answer C) in all codes.

 

Thanks for all the confirmation on both questions.

[maven]

45 minutes ago, noumpere said:

That's what I have.  RefMag has Balk (answer C) in all codes.

So, 2 schools of thought: hidden ball trick = good defense vs. hidden ball trick = bad game management.

If you like the former, all 3 codes have different rules. FED: legal unless F1 is within 5 feet of the rubber w/o ball; NCAA: legal unless F1 is on the dirt circle w/o ball; OBR: legal unless F1 is on or astride the rubber w/o ball.

If you like the latter, you probably edit RefMag.

I'm a pretty aggressive game manager and tolerate few shenanigans. But the HBT is a pretty standard "trick play," and if done legally, deserves to be ruled on accordingly. Plus, it's one less out the defense has to get until 

[Rich Ives]

10 hours ago, Jimurray said:

Shouldn't be a factor in OBR. NCAA specifies location only when a hidden ball trick is attempted. The 6 foot restriction in FED can be violated unwittingly but no knowledgeable umpire would wittingly call it absent a hidden ball attempt.

Fixed it for you.   

[The Man in Blue]

18 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

It's all about when the possession rule kicks in.  Pitcher cannot be (wherever) without the ball.

BUT

Do we expect the pitcher to disappear off the mound instantly after releasing the ball? Isn't he technically in an illegal place without the ball as soon as he releases it as a pitch or pick-off? 

 

 

18 hours ago, Jimurray said:

Shouldn't be a factor in OBR. NCAA specifies location only when a hidden ball trick is attempted. The 6 foot restriction in FED can be violated unwittingly but no umpire would wittingly call it absent a hidden ball attempt.

 

 

Not exactly ... Fed does not say the pitcher cannot be within 5 feet of the rubber without the ball.  It says the pitcher cannot take a position within 5 feet of the pitcher's plate without the ball.  (6-2-5)

Art. 5 . . . It is also a balk if a runner or runners are on base and the pitcher, while he is not touching the pitcher's plate, makes any movement naturally associated with is pitch, or he places his feet on or astride the pitcher's plate, or positions himself within approximately five feet of the pitcher's plate without having the ball.

I suppose "positions himself" is going to be open for interpretation ... by the rest of the wording of that rule, I would say "positions" means actually takes a defensive posture or the appearance of preparing to pitch, not "just happens to be standing there".