Hands together in set position

[ousafe]

LL majors rules.

 

This came up in a game tonight.
 

Pitcher in classic set position (pivot foot parallel to pitching plate), with hands by his side. He proceeds to pitch, initiating his motion by picking up his free foot, and at the same time kind of tapping the ball against his glove and then throwing the ball. No declaration that he was pitching from the windup (although that I think is OBR only?).
 

I thought you had to bring your hands together in the set before initiating your motion (even if, at majors and below, no pause is necessary).
 

I know there is some ambiguity with the set and windup position descriptions in the LL rules, but I'm wary of an "anything goes" approach, just from a teaching standpoint, even if the bases are "closed".

 

Is not bringing your hands together in the set position illegal, or just fine?

 

Fwiw, in the game I let it go after a discussion with the coach, saying I'd look into it further, but for the game I'd consider him to be in the windup position and allow it on that basis.  But for sure he was assuming the set position (not even remotely close to a hybrid stance).

[Biscuit]

I certainly would never coach a kid to do this... Even if it's legal in LL, that's a balk everywhere else.

[Jimurray]

6 minutes ago, Biscuit said:

I certainly would never coach a kid to do this... Even if it's legal in LL, that's a balk everywhere else.

Legal by LL following OBR wording. No declaration of windup needed because LL did not add that comment when OBR/MLB did. 

But advise the coach that it won’t do the kid much good and he will have revise his delivery if he plays HS or College. 

[ousafe]

1 hour ago, Jimurray said:

Legal by LL following OBR wording. No declaration of windup needed because LL did not add that comment when OBR/MLB did. 

But advise the coach that it won’t do the kid much good and he will have revise his delivery if he plays HS or College. 

@Jimurray, is there an interp or anything to back this up?

I would contend the pitcher never assumed either of the legal pitching positions:

1) Hands not together - not in the Set position.

2) Shoulders not parallel to a line between first and third base - not in the windup position.  (This taken from the 2017 LL RIM comments.)

So how is that not an illegal pitch?

[Jimurray]

7 minutes ago, ousafe said:

@Jimurray, is there an interp or anything to back this up?

I would contend the pitcher never assumed either of the legal pitching positions:

1) Hands not together - not in the Set position.

2) Shoulders not parallel to a line between first and third base - not in the windup position.  (This taken from the 2017 LL RIM comments.)

So how is that not an illegal pitch?

It appears the RIM author is taking "facing the batter" literally which, as we can see in OBR/MLB is not done at that level. While the pitcher's feet were in a what looks like the set position his shoulders might be facing the batter but probably not. If not you could use the RIM to call that an illegal pitch.  Not a bad thing as that delivery would not serve him well in HS or College.

[Rich Ives]

You can wind up from set in LL majors. Don't get too carried away here.  Runners are frozen to the base so there's no one being faked out by a pitching position.

The RIM has to cover the levels where leading off is allowed. Things aren't the same in majors.

[Senor Azul]

2018 Little League Rules Instruction Manual Rule 8.01(b)

EXAMPLE: In Major Little League (and below), the pitcher may windup from the Set Position.

INSTRUCTOR COMMENTS:

In Majors and Minors, the pitcher need not come to a complete stop in a set position, since the base runners may not leave their bases until the ball reaches the batter.

While it is legal in the Majors and Minors for a pitcher to windup from a set position, it is a delivery that should not be taught. It will be a balk once the pitcher enters the Intermediate (50/70) Division and above.