NFHS Rules question

[lawump]

Rule 8-4-1 (d) reads,

after hitting or bunting a ball, he intentionally contacts the ball with the bat a second time in fair or foul territory. The ball is dead and no runner(s) advance.

1. In the case of a foul ball, it must have a chance to become fair in the umpire's judgment.

2. If the bat and ball accidentally come in contact with each other a second time while the batter is holding the bat in the batter's box, it is a foul ball.

Here is my question/play:

No runners, no outs.  B/R uses a softball style swinging bunt.  After making contact with the ball, the batter drops the bat out of his hands as he is  beginning to run to first base.  The ball has bounced in the dirt in front of the plate.  As the bat is falling to the ground after being dropped by the batter, it strikes the ball (which is over fair territory) which is bouncing upward.  The batter did not intentionally throw the bat at the ball, nor did he intentionally try to hit the ball with the bat.  But,  he did "intentionally" drop the bat as he began toward first base.  What do you have?  This happened in an actual high school game this weekend.  I cannot see where we have addressed this play in a NFHS Casebook during the last 3 years that I've been on the committee.

Thanks in advance.

[Jimurray]

Just now, lawump said:

Rule 8-4-1 (d) reads,

after hitting or bunting a ball, he intentionally contacts the ball with the bat a second time in fair or foul territory. The ball is dead and no runner(s) advance.

1. In the case of a foul ball, it must have a chance to become fair in the umpire's judgment.

2. If the bat and ball accidentally come in contact with each other a second time while the batter is holding the bat in the batter's box, it is a foul ball.

Here is my question/play:

No runners, no outs.  B/R uses a softball style swinging bunt.  After making contact with the ball, the batter drops the bat out of his hands as he is  beginning to run to first base.  The ball has bounced in the dirt in front of the plate.  As the bat is falling to the ground after being dropped by the batter, it strikes the ball (which is over fair territory) which is bouncing upward.  The batter did not intentionally throw the bat at the ball, nor did he intentionally try to hit the ball with the bat.  But,  he did "intentionally" drop the bat as he began toward first base.  What do you have?  This happened in an actual high school game this weekend.  I cannot see where we have addressed this play in a NFHS Casebook during the last 3 years that I've been on the committee.

Thanks in advance.

The ball hit the bat. Play the bounce.

[noumpere]

I think this is one of those places where OBR and FED give different results.  And, I'm pretty sure there is a case play or interp on this -- I remember looking this issue up many years ago.

[Jimurray]

11 minutes ago, noumpere said:

I think this is one of those places where OBR and FED give different results.  And, I'm pretty sure there is a case play or interp on this -- I remember looking this issue up many years ago.

Wouldn't this work:

"2.5.1 SITUATION E:

The batter hits the ball, drops the bat and it unintentionally hits the ball a second time in (a) fair territory and is either touched by a fielder and/or comes to rest in fair territory; (b) foul territory and is either touched by a fielder and/or comes to rest in either fair or foul territory; or (c) fair territory and is either touched by a fielder and/or comes to rest in foul territory.

RULING: In (a), the ball is fair. In (b) and (c), the ball is foul."

[conbo61]

I recall hearing a rationale along the lines of the did the ball hit the bat or the bat hit the ball (similar to Jimurray's response.)

The explanation went further to state that if the bat were STATIONARY, the ball hit the bat, play on.  If the bat were moving, the bat hit the ball (no consideration of what DIRECTION the ball was moving), therefore the runner is out. No one advances.  No regard for intent either.

[lawump]

1 hour ago, Jimurray said:

Wouldn't this work:

"2.5.1 SITUATION E:

The batter hits the ball, drops the bat and it unintentionally hits the ball a second time in (a) fair territory and is either touched by a fielder and/or comes to rest in fair territory; (b) foul territory and is either touched by a fielder and/or comes to rest in either fair or foul territory; or (c) fair territory and is either touched by a fielder and/or comes to rest in foul territory.

RULING: In (a), the ball is fair. In (b) and (c), the ball is foul."

Thank you!  

[noumpere]

5 hours ago, conbo61 said:

I recall hearing a rationale along the lines of the did the ball hit the bat or the bat hit the ball (similar to Jimurray's response.)

The explanation went further to state that if the bat were STATIONARY, the ball hit the bat, play on.  If the bat were moving, the bat hit the ball (no consideration of what DIRECTION the ball was moving), therefore the runner is out. No one advances.  No regard for intent either.

That's the OBR interp, I think.  Different from the FED interp.

[grk17]

On 3/18/2019 at 8:46 PM, noumpere said:

That's the OBR interp, I think.  Different from the FED interp.

So are we saying that in Fed we play on if this happens? In other words, are we saying that Fed requires intent?

[noumpere]

12 hours ago, grk17 said:

So are we saying that in Fed we play on if this happens? In other words, are we saying that Fed requires intent?

That's what is in the case play cited in this thread.

[MT73]

In OBR if the bat hits the ball a second time it is an out and the ball is dead.

in Fed it has to be intentional for an out to be called.