Overrunning 1st base

[umpire_scott]

12U baseball.  Ball hit to right field.  BR running down the line sees it will be an easy base hit slows up as if to stop at the base.  The RF throws to first and the throw pulls F3 off the base and causes BR to lose his balance so he touches the base and then stumbles forward off of it.  At what point is he liable to be put out for coming off the base versus legally overrunning it?

[Senor Azul]

From the 2016 BRD (section 458, p. 303):

OBR:  Official Interpretation:  Wendelstedt:  If a runner is knocked or pushed off a base by a fielder and would not have lost contact on his own momentum, the umpire following conclusion of play will call time and award the runner the base he had already reached safely. (2013 WRIM, section 8.4.2g, p. 160)

FED/NCAA:  No provision. Treat as in OBR.

[Rich Ives]

38 minutes ago, umpire_scott said:

12U baseball.  Ball hit to right field.  BR running down the line sees it will be an easy base hit slows up as if to stop at the base.  The RF throws to first and the throw pulls F3 off the base and causes BR to lose his balance so he touches the base and then stumbles forward off of it.  At what point is he liable to be put out for coming off the base versus legally overrunning it?

Only if he actually stopped at first base and then came off. Going by at a jog or tripping while running and falling over if is still an overrun.

[umpire_scott]

3 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

From the 2016 BRD (section 458, p. 303):

OBR:  Official Interpretation:  Wendelstedt:  If a runner is knocked or pushed off a base by a fielder and would not have lost contact on his own momentum, the umpire following conclusion of play will call time and award the runner the base he had already reached safely. (2013 WRIM, section 8.4.2g, p. 160)

FED/NCAA:  No provision. Treat as in OBR.

So in my case F3 never contacted BR.  The throw came in high and wide and BR kind of ducked to avoid F3 and the ball. In ducking he lost his balance and lunged forward a little and his back foot came off the bag.  It was a strange play in that by what I saw he was not planning on running through the base, he was planning on stopping at the base.  He had slowed down to do so.  But when he noticed F9 throwing to F3 he ducked to get out of the way of the throw and this caused him to come off the back of the base.  I guess I was asking if he gets any extra protection being that he is able to overrun first base.

 

[noumpere]

Unless / until the runner has come to a complete stop on the base, let him overrun it.

[maven]

11 hours ago, umpire_scott said:

I guess I was asking if he gets any extra protection being that he is able to overrun first base.

Yes. As Ives says: if he had stopped in clear possession of the base and then come off (without being pushed off, that is, voluntarily or "accidentally"), then he'd be liable to be tagged off the base.

The rules do not specify constraints on what shall count as overrunning 1B.

[midtnump]

21 minutes ago, maven said:

Yes. As Ives says: if he had stopped in clear possession of the base and then come off (without being pushed off, that is, voluntarily or "accidentally"), then he'd be liable to be tagged off the base.

The rules do not specify constraints on what shall count as overrunning 1B.

But a BR  also has the obligation  to avoid interfering with a defensive player in  the act of fielding a hit or a throw. To me your scenario sounds like he was avoiding the interference.

[noumpere]

38 minutes ago, midtnump said:

But a BR  also has the obligation  to avoid interfering with a defensive player in  the act of fielding a hit or a throw. To me your scenario sounds like he was avoiding the interference.

Yes (generally).

Not so much.

[Mudisfun]

On 4/30/2018 at 6:46 AM, midtnump said:

But a BR  also has the obligation  to avoid interfering with a defensive player in  the act of fielding a hit or a throw. To me your scenario sounds like he was avoiding the interference.

Depending on the code... FED and LL do not have an act of fielding a thrown ball provision. You can interfere without being called for interfering, provided of course it was not intentional. The defensive player without possession of the ball has the obligation not to obstruct.

[maven]

1 hour ago, Mudisfun said:

Depending on the code... FED and LL do not have an act of fielding a thrown ball provision. You can interfere without being called for interfering, provided of course it was not intentional. The defensive player without possession of the ball has the obligation not to obstruct.

I wouldn't put the point that way, which makes it sound like either an illegal but effective tactic or a blown call.

The proper summary is your last sentence: for a thrown ball, the onus is on a fielder without the ball not to obstruct a runner.

[midtnump]

22 hours ago, Mudisfun said:

Depending on the code... FED and LL do not have an act of fielding a thrown ball provision. You can interfere without being called for interfering, provided of course it was not intentional. The defensive player without possession of the ball has the obligation not to obstruct.

Dixie Youth extends that rule to if you are in the act of receiving a throw. 

[Rich Ives]

2 hours ago, midtnump said:

Dixie Youth extends that rule to if you are in the act of receiving a throw. 

AND it's close enough that the fielder MUST be in that position to receive it.